Jump to content
Christian

DC relaunch batch 4

  

8 members have voted

  1. 1. Which did you like?

    • All Star Western
      1
    • Aquaman
      1
    • Batman - The Dark Knight
      1
    • Blackhawks
      0
    • The Flash
      1
    • The Fury of Firestorm
      0
    • Green Lantern: New Guardians
      0
    • I, Vampire
      2
    • Justice League Dark
      3
    • The Savage Hawkman
      1
    • Superman
      0
    • Teen Titans
      1
    • Voodo
      0
  2. 2. Bonus question: Rate Justice League of Potter

    • 0 - Dire
      0
    • 1 - Not good
      1
    • 2 - Not Bad
      3
    • 3 - I like it
      2
    • 4 - Excellent
      0
    • I have not read it and nor will I
      2


Recommended Posts

Superman 2: I loved the plot of this issue, and its retro central concept. But the same clumsy dialogue and mediocre art from last issue means this is never gonna outshine the new Action Comics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aquaman #2 had a little more action in it and more story, but not enough. I feel like I'm being short-changed by having so few pages. It just reads far too quick. There are some good character moments with Arthur & Mera at home. Reis's art is spectacular

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Superman 3: plot dull, script and art amateurish. That's the final issue for me.

 

It's not dreadful, just far below the standard I'd expect for the relaunch of DC's flagship character. Looks like they totally ran out of inspiration after Action Comics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aquaman #3 was alright. This title is starting to irritate me. The novelty of having Aquaman cool again is wearing off fast due primarily to Johns not utilizing the 20 pages. Every issue I've read I felt cheated, like I should have been given more meat. It's not all bad; the art has been 100% awesome, the little touches on the of Arthur's back story, especially with his father, the world building I've been seeing, like the history of the trident. You can get more in 20 pages! I direct you to "Fell" by Ellis as an example or, more currently, "Batman" by Snyder, he packs a great deal of story in small package. Johns seems to be writing more for the trade. Something I thought DC was cutting back on or stopping entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me that most (but not all) of the DC books have gone in that direction since the "New 52".

That's why a lot of the DC books I bought in September lost my interest.

Johns' titles seem to be exceptional examples...(at least if Justice League is still going as slowly as the reviews of issues #1 & 2 said it was).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started reading Aquaman and was looking forward to issue #3.In the meantime i found some Green Lantern at the local library. I haven't read much of it and wanted to see what all the fuss is about. I was reading "Secret Origin" until i got to issue two, and that's when Mr Johns pissed me off quite a bit. There is a scene where a Polish pilot is talking down to and Asian guy, making racist remarks, and in exchange Hal responds "You're pretty smart for a Pollack, Laminski". Not only does Johns portray Polish people as racist, but also as idiots in general. I happen to be Polish, and although there might be some morons who were born in my country, i find that remark incredibly racist and ignorant, especially coming from a writer of a popular series such as Green Lantern. So fuck you Mr Johns, i will not support your work anymore..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved Secret Origin. But I think you are viewing the "Pollack" comment from the wrong way. Hal wasn't saying it to be a racist ass, he was calling Laminski such as a way of teaching him a lesson, showing him the stupidity making jokes based on sterotypes of a person's race/ethnicity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved Secret Origin. But I think you are viewing the "Pollack" comment from the wrong way. Hal wasn't saying it to be a racist ass, he was calling Laminski such as a way of teaching him a lesson, showing him the stupidity making jokes based on sterotypes of a person's race/ethnicity.

 

I'm not denying Johns' talent as a writer, i enjoy some of his work as well, but i feel that this portrayal of someone for no reason creates wrong kind of stereotypes and is just hateful in my opinion. I agree that this kind of behavior displayed by the pilot is abhorrent and should be taught lessons, but why does this guy have to be Polish? Because it's ok to make fun of Polish people, as opposite of some other ethic groups? I don't find much evidence that we deserve this kind of portrayal.. If you look at Nazis - it's ok to portray them as bad guys, because they did bad things. I know Polish people married to Asians, so i find it unfair that Johns spreads that kind of vision in the minds of thousands of readers. I sound like my grandma, but it kind of pissed me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think you're being unfair. I haven't read this comic, but I think I can figure out what Johns was doing.

A lot of people tell Polish jokes. It is sort of accepted that it's ok to make fun of Polish people. So, Polish people should be sensitive to this sort of slight (as you seem to be in this discussion). Therefore, by Johns presenting this one Polish character as a racist individual, it opens the door to discuss the issue of racism and stereotyping. I really can't see it as being a blanket statement about Polish people. I see it as saying, "It's wrong to make fun of Polish people, so it's also wrong to make fun of Asian people".

If the racist character were an English person, would that then make this an attack on English people?

It might be a fair point that Polish people aren't regularly used in popular culture, but until recently, it was rare to see an African-American character used in a comic unless they were part of a random criminal gang. I think there was some underlying racism implicit in this, but I don't think it was blatantly racist.

I think in this instance, though, the usage of the Polish character was deliberate to get Johns point across, even though you felt it was in bad taste. I still don't see it as an example of discrimination by Johns.

Of course if you feel that strongly about this issue, you can quit reading Johns' work. Although, I continued to read Chris Claremont comics after the unfortunate egocentric decision by Claremont to have Kitty Pryde call a character in X-Men a "nigger" to prove her point that "mutie" is indeed a very hurtful word. You know, because fictional worlds are so important that it's perfectly ok to denigrate a real world struggle for the sake of a comic book.

 

And, yes, it's ok to portray Nazis in a negative light, because Nazis aren't a race or ethnicity. On the other hand, it would be wrong to portray every German character as a "goose stepper" just because of the Nazi Party in Germany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without reading the comic, I reckon it would have been more apt to say "some people might say you're smart for a Pollack".

 

It definitely requires more in the dialogue to avoid interpretations like Maritimus' or even the more benign,

"That's it, I shall become a racist to fight racism ! That'll teach them !"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see your point, there is some irony to the fact that a Polish character insults others, because he should know better, having been made fun of himself. But who does that really speak to? I don't think an English person, or an American, will be affected by it, because they don't feel offended, therefore would not consider "Maybe it isn't so nice after all to make racist jokes about others". The only person affected would be a Polish person. I think this scene could have been handled in a more universal way, so anyone could relate to it, if that was really the point of it. I still think it was just lazy scripting.

If Johns wanted to make a joke, no problem, but saying "You're pretty smart for a pollack?" That actually does include all Polish people, doesn't it? It's a huge generalization ended with a derogatory word, that is usually used towards Polish people in the same way a Hispanic person would be called "a spic", or a Chinese "chink", and so on.

I generally have no problem with racist slang in books/comics, it has its place, usually used by criminals and people on the edge, but having Hal Jordan say something like that? So yeah, i don't think i will be reading any more of Johns' work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without reading the comic, I reckon it would have been more apt to say "some people might say you're smart for a Pollack".

 

It definitely requires more in the dialogue to avoid interpretations like Maritimus' or even the more benign,

"That's it, I shall become a racist to fight racism ! That'll teach them !"

 

It worked for the KKK!

 

Speaking of which, on the subject of more cringe inducing racial sensitivity covered in comic books, remember the issue of Spawn where he turned the one KKK member into an African-American so the rest of the KKK would lynch him? That's teaching them about the wrongs of racism, Spawn!

 

Like I said, it could certainly be read in bad taste. Maritimus' point about a sterling hero like Hal Jordan using that sort of derogatory remark to make some type of point is understandable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one of my good friends who is polish tells the best polish jokes. he says polish ppl get the jokes because they went with horses and pitchforks and faced the nazi juggernaut of tanks and guns . but while polish jokes are a slight, being polish isn't a race, it's just an unfortunate handicap--oh! (jk) but Poles are white, so it's intolerant but not racist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right about it not being a race, of course. Unlike Americans, who are the greatest race in the country!

My grandfather is of Romanian heritage, and lived in a part of this country where many different nationalities dwelled together, mostly Eastern Europeans though, and he still uses the term "Pollack" from time to time. He doesn't consider it like other ethnic slurs, because they used to use the term casually in the town when he was a kid, and no one minded.

I'm wondering now, though, why is there a term like that for Polish people, when there isn't any for Romanians or Hungarians? Does no one notice them folk, or do people just think all non-Russian or South Slavic Eastern Europeans are Polish? Hmmm...

Hungarians and Romanians, in original context, aren't even a Slavic people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A. Heathen - that's a great way to put it. You don't fighting racism by being a bigger racist. I mean, one can, but they become the exact thing they're fighting, so what is the point?

 

Slinker, yeah, being Polish is not really a race so racism is not the correct word to refer to intolerance, i just couldn't find one that seemed to fit, i just hope the meaning is clear enough.. :)

 

Christian, it is funny that Pollack is used as something offensive, because even though it is meant to be, it is simply the way Polish nationality is pronounced in our own language. I don't know the origin, i guess it was because Americans thought we were Russian, and to correct them a Polish person might say "I'm no Ruski. I'm Polak!", due to poor English skills. Now Polish people are thought to be Russian so often that it could have been heard a lot, and become a joke. "He is not Russian! He is a Pollack!". And laughter. Again, i don't know how that came to be, but something like that is very possible :)

 

There is quite a large group of Polish descendants in the US, not as many Romanians of Hungarians that i know of. There is a whole neighborhood here in NY that is primarily Polish. I'm not aware of a Romanian or Hungarian place here, and i know these are just examples, but you could include most of Eastern European countries on that list. There are hoods that are Chinese, Hispanic, Black, Jewish and so on, and all of them have their offensive terms, but you just wouldn't see most of them in mainstream comic books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, Vampire with added John Constantine-Well, that was awful. I'm glad I stopped reading this book. "The Queen of Blood"? So, this is an adaptation of a bad Anne Rice novel, then?

What was the purpose of Constantine showing up in this story anyway? It was totally pointless.

We finally got the immortal scene, where I, Vampire himself refers to John as "The Hellblazer"!

 

Aquaman, on the other hand, just got so much better. With the introduction of Aqua-dog, how could it not? I'm glad I stuck with this one. After three months of nothing happening, Johns rushes and wraps up the entire story-arc this month. The pacing is awful, but the story was actually quite enjoyable, and the next story-arc looks really good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Aquaman, on the other hand, just got so much better. With the introduction of Aqua-dog, how could it not? I'm glad I stuck with this one. After three months of nothing happening, Johns rushes and wraps up the entire story-arc this month. The pacing is awful, but the story was actually quite enjoyable, and the next story-arc looks really good.

 

Yeah this was going to be the last chance for me then Johns came thru. Aqua-Dog hahahaha Or I think it'd be funny if they named him "Minnow"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, Vampire with added John Constantine-Well, that was awful. I'm glad I stopped reading this book. "The Queen of Blood"? So, this is an adaptation of a bad Anne Rice novel, then?

What was the purpose of Constantine showing up in this story anyway? It was totally pointless.

Because that's the entire point of usurping characters from Vertigo for the sake of pointless cameos and crossovers (reboot or not). That's what I've been dreading for most of last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...