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A. Heathen

Hellblazer #291

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14 members have voted

  1. 1. How was it for you?

    • 1 - Satan's shit-stained underwear
    • 2
    • 3
    • 4
      0
    • 5
      0
    • 6
      0
    • 7
    • 8
      0
    • 9
      0
    • 10 - Blue Moon Winter Abbey Ale
      0
    • I did not BUY this comic


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Back in the days of dog sex and bondage, I said that leaving a woman tied to a tree was not the behaviour we'd come to expect of the character. There were rationalisations never addressed in the story but I still dislike that scene.

However, while this casual murdering Constantine has none of the established morals of his character that episode pales into mildness alongside asking /allowing his niece to seduce his demon twin.

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that episode pales into mildness alongside asking /allowing his niece to seduce his demon twin.

 

Are you forgetting that this is old fashioned evil that likes nothing better than to make people not believe in God? Which we know, from Tony's fate is Hell, the only other option being religious bigotry?

No price is too high...

 

:mong:

 

 

ETA

You know what? Of course Gemma had to use sex as a weapon against the demon. You know why? There's nothing else to her.

Before Milligan took over she had brains and guts enough to fend off the demon or escape it, but now she's just a victim. This counterfeit premise is what makes her revenge a farce. The demon is not the one that took her power away. Milligan is.

I refuse to speak any more of this issue. Good day. :hattip:

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I'll drink to that.

You need say no more, because you've nailed it.

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I read somewhere that a tradition in the cabala has it that demons can be killed. If they don't have free will they couldn't have fallen, I'd assume. They're basically angels that don't channel divine power. John fucked up Gabriel anyway.

 

Yeah. Angels seem to have free will in HB...and just are really arrogant bastards who look down on puny mortal humans.

In Islamic tradition, that would make them evil and not good...

Even in Christian tradition, the pride element would be sinful, and therefore wouldn't make them angels...

As far as demons, in Jewish (and Muslim) tradition that is true, but it's not accepted by most strains of Christianity.

The Christian tradition is really messed up on the concept of evil and Satan...the concepts really don't belong in the religion, at all. It tried to do away with duality, but obviously "bad things do happen to good people"...

So, only humans are supposed to have free will in most of Christian tradition.

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Has Milligan run out of stories then?

He had stories to run out of?

 

Other than a few storylines, like India, I've disliked much of what he's done. He's shown an appalling lack of understanding of what makes John Constantine tick, and if the series continues beyond his tenure, I worry that he'll have irreversibly damaged the title, as the next author will be continuing from where he left off. Ugh.

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At one point Peter Milligan didn't even need a story to write like a person possessed. He could have written a dialogue between a dumpster and a toy car and still create something unique with multiple meanings and a dark sense of humor at the heart of it. He used to write poetry in a comic book form. Ridiculous poetry, but poetry. Now he lost his hunger, doesn't challenge himself anymore, doesn't really pursue any meaning in the actions of his characters. Maybe some writers just burn through their gasoline quickly. The great ones often do. Who knows.. It would be nice though if Milligan recognized that he isn't doing anything meaningful with Constantine, and just handed it over to someone who still cares.

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That's what I most wonder about.

Surely, Milligan must care about the character of John Constantine.

I can't see Milligan not reading, at least, the Delano and Ennis years of HB.

Especially considering that he's planning to stay on the title longer than any writer in history on HB.

Does he actually feel he's writing quality stories?

He seems to feel that he's writing a more nuanced and true-to-character version of John than is appearing on the page, based on interviews.

 

I don't know...plus, the fact that he was raving about that Mindwarp character he introduced in JLD...you just have to wonder where Milligan's head is at.

Was he actually serious in his comments about Mindwarp, or what that his wry sense of humour?

At one time, I'd have thought he was being sarcastic, but I seriously doubt he was.

I used to love his humour. I found it funny when many seemed to miss it. Now, it just makes me wonder.

 

How can he think that he was doing justice to the character he made his own, Shade, with the stories he's been writing with that character?

 

There has to be some sense of self-awareness. He's not a Howard Mackie, who never had the talent, and so is totally oblivious to the fact that his stories don't work.

Can't he compare his work in the past 6 years to his work in the 1980s and see that he's lost his passion?

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That's what I most wonder about.

Surely, Milligan must care about the character of John Constantine.

I can't see Milligan not reading, at least, the Delano and Ennis years of HB.

Especially considering that he's planning to stay on the title longer than any writer in history on HB.

Does he actually feel he's writing quality stories?

He seems to feel that he's writing a more nuanced and true-to-character version of John than is appearing on the page, based on interviews.

 

I don't know...plus, the fact that he was raving about that Mindwarp character he introduced in JLD...you just have to wonder where Milligan's head is at.

Was he actually serious in his comments about Mindwarp, or what that his wry sense of humour?

At one time, I'd have thought he was being sarcastic, but I seriously doubt he was.

I used to love his humour. I found it funny when many seemed to miss it. Now, it just makes me wonder.

 

How can he think that he was doing justice to the character he made his own, Shade, with the stories he's been writing with that character?

 

There has to be some sense of self-awareness. He's not a Howard Mackie, who never had the talent, and so is totally oblivious to the fact that his stories don't work.

Can't he compare his work in the past 6 years to his work in the 1980s and see that he's lost his passion?

 

Nor is he DiDio either (and he worked as one of the production crew for some ABC soap in the early 80s).

 

Somehow he must've snapped during the aformentioned six years. I almost listed him as one of the writers who could've been a shoe-in to write for the Doctor Who New Adventures range on Gallifrey Base's Timelash section two weeks ago. But then I look back on issues 251 to now and Morrison's Bat-Opus. I'm glad I didn't.

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Bit late to the party, but I'm finding it hard to bother to read this stuff, even though I get it for free.

 

Is Milligan just trolling at this point? Or does he think that what he's coming up with has some (any?) redeeming features? Does he look at the talking trenchcoat and Gemma and her sex gun and think, 'Ah-ha! I'm taking Hellblazer in crazy new directions that nobody has ever dared explore before!'? I'd be genuinely interested to know what goes through his head these days.

 

Ah well. Problems as outlined above, the most obnoxious of which being - as Adrian says - a rape victim tarting herself up to lure in her attacker. Closely followed by Angie's out-of-character* pity-fuck request** and John cold-bloodedly killing some poor fucker***.

 

Even Gael Bertrand's usually excellent art seems half-arsed and lacking in inspiration.

 

Never mind. Hellblazer ended with issue 213. This is just its poor, confused ghost.

 

 

* No surprise there, then.

** Has anyone made a list of the weird misogynistic shit that's surfaced in Milligan's run? It'd probably take a while but might be interesting. Hard to believe this stuff is edited by a woman.

*** Oh yeah - fella's a wife-beater. A bit of self awareness/flagellation from Milligan regarding the dubious sexual politics of his run?**** Still shit and out of established pre-Milligan character though.

**** I assume that 'runs' originally came from a metaphor about a creator physically running a long distance; starting to wonder if it had a more fecal origin.

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I wonder if a some of the comic writers are not sore as fuck because of all the money Movies of these characters make for the company, feeling left out of the lolly scramble or something. "White Striking" at, or below the money belt?.

 

 

Imagine* if people doing the same job in the same company as you got lots more money than you just because of some silly arbitary reason, wouldn't it make you a bit bitter?. Bitter enough to turn in substandard work maybe?.

 

There has to be something going on, because the man is far more talented and aware of the various tropes, than this run makes him out to be.

 

He is not a crap writer without a clue, yet he is producing this shit. And as you say, a Female editor, a very talented, time-tested female editor, is letting this shit stain up a comic that has been known, for years, to address at least some of the faults in peoples behaviour.

 

Or we come back to the idea that someone has said "Ignore its heritage, we need to make it more "edgey" and the female characters more "With-it and outragous", they need SEX-guns and tattoos, short hair and a sneer, and a little spicey incestuous rape wouldn't hurt maybe . . . couldn't we get one of our edgey teen-queens to kick some old geezer to death?".

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Ladies, you please don't imagine this, I have no wish to make you angry with me. Again.

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I doubt it's anything as adolescent as that. Possibly the opposite: middle-aged slump.

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I dunno about that: you're never too old for the sort of mantrum tigger's describing. There's a few cases of SF writers acting as badly (or worse) so why not comics hacks as well?

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I can't see Milligan risking his reputation by doing something this awful on purpose.

Especially since I'm pretty sure Milligan meant John's killing of an abuser to be a corrective to the implied sexism that's cropped up throughout his run.

Turning in sub-par and rushed work is one thing...writing scenes like Gemma in lingerie with a big gun is something that could be really damaging.

Unless he's trying out for a revival of Witchblade, which publisher offered him big bucks...

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Revival? I didn't think that bucket of shit had ever stopped being published...

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I guess I hoped it was long gone, since I don't follow all that drivel...but, if it still is published, I guess I can't be surprised when Spawn has been plugging away since 1992 now.

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I would walk out of the room if anyone ever said "Yeah, I love comics too, do you read Spawn? it is great".

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I thought the HBO Spawn series was kind of cool, so I used it to springboard me to the comic. Ugh, talk about some suckage. The clown was even more annoying than he was on the series, Malbolgia was just a piece of shit, non-threatening yells alot kind of freak, and Spawn cried about as much as he did on the show, so even there. You could tell the color of the characters' skin easier in the comic.

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What's worse is 220 issues later and it's still the same shit except Spawn is Jim instead of Al.

 

The HBO cartoon was pretty cool though.

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Yep. There was zero progression in the comic for the first 100 issues, really.

I stopped reading at #101, but I thought there were some really good comics at one point with Spawn.

When I re-read some of those stories, I discovered that Spawn had not progressed at all through the first 99 issues.

McFarlane would look like he was resolving a plot, then two issue later, McFarlane would erase the changes, and go right back to the same plot.

It's especially annoying since McFarlane ranted on about how the "corporate superheroes" could never change. That the properties would be kept dealing with the exact same problems and plots over and over forever, because of the "company line". "Creator owned" comic characters would be different, said McFarlane...and then McFarlane created Spawn.

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Along with creating a company to publish Spawn.

Perhaps that was the problem?

:sherlock:

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you haven't heard? he's in at least til 300 if not longer. i would sigh but i'd blow out my hit too soon.

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you haven't heard? he's in at least til 300 if not longer. i would sigh but i'd blow out my hit too soon.

Didn't Warren Ellis say much the same before there was all of that fuss about the shitawful Shoot?

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