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Shawn

Hellblazer ends! Constanteen begins.

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Yeah, you think that. But, when DC looked at the books, and saw they could have a creatively intelligent comic book with Brain Wood having a go at the HB comic versus the sales that they could have with Geoff Johns writing Constantine in the DCU, you know which way their heads turned.

It's all about trying to find that next hot property, not worrying about creativity and artistry.

 

 

The early-1990s aren't coming back,

 

you write that as if it seems logical. I know Geoff Johns appeals to the caped and tighted fans, but isn't Wood like a minor celebrity in our world of funny pages by now? Enough of one to get autonomy on a title? Milligan had autonomy on Hellblazer which is why it spun of its wheels. When a certain personality type (passive aggressive control freak, let's say, for example), with no one there to say hey, you're treading napalm there! It's not water, you idiot! Smell that. Oh, no the fans have broken through the perimeter. But since he knew he was writng it until it ended, I think they gave him the keys to the kingdom and told him to go ahead and stick his dick into anything he wants. With all the things to stick his dick in, why did he choose John? I love Chas, but I'd have sacrificed him to Milligan's bloodlust instead of the entire title if I could swing a Brian Wood or Paul Cornell. That would be a coup and bring up the numbers. The character isn't boring, just written too absurdly for nigh on 3 or 4 years and chased all John's fans into the forest.

 

Your bold point does seem like to the industry, it's their gold to make lightning in the exact same place twice. It's ridiculous. You are right, those stupid days are gone forever. You know what it was? The comics version of the nutty bankers in 2008. The comics were mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps with their phony little rating system, and when the market crashed, a bunch of guys had to move back into their mom's basement.

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Was it the 1st Vertigo book? Or was Sandman?

 

He's got a point, though. 300 issues is a hell of a run for a character that not many people know about.

 

There wasn't just one founding Vertigo title. There was a small line of books when Vertigo started....Sandman, Hellblazer, Doom Patrol, Animal Man, Kid Eternity, Black Orchid, and Sandman Mystery Theatre was just launched.

If we're talking precursors to Vertigo, Swamp Thing was the longest running title when Vertigo started.

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Slinker-Wood has a cult following, for sure. But, he doesn't seem to do much for sales, no. He was writing X-Men over at Marvel just recently, and the sales didn't move an inch.

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Hmmm...well, what do I know? Things seem like they should succumb to gravity and orbital velocity and then fly off into the sky, with no visible propulsion system. (sorry, I haven't slept in over 24 hours.).

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Yeah, let's quibble among ourselves on a minor point of detail while Dan Didio laughs and laughs and touches himself.

As if he hadn't been doing that for since Identity Crisis.

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I read this news on Twitter yesterday and whilst I agree with what is being said in this thread, I felt very sad to hear it was over. I haven't read Hellblazer since Milligan started writing it, but knowing the old bastard was out there was a satisfying thought.

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Yeah, let's quibble among ourselves on a minor point of detail while Dan Didio laughs and laughs and touches himself.

As if that he hadn't been doing that for since Identity Crisis.

 

With respect, the issue at hand here is not what Didio may or may not be doing, but quibbling over if Hellblazer was the first Vertigo book.

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Well, technically Swamp Thing would be the first Vertigo book, if we go by seniority - it predates Hellblazer, Sandman, and Animal Man (all titles which were segregated into the Vertigo line), and was also the first title (of all the titles that ended up in Vertigo, that is, I'm well aware there was quality, mature titles in the DCU before Moore's "Sophisticated suspense" take on Swampy) to have the mature situation and themes. Hellblazer WAS the last man standing, of course, and could be considered first title which was *conceived* from the get go as a mature readers comic (plus it predates Animal Man/Sandman by a couple of months, and I'm not sure Animal Man was Mature readers from the get-go, most likely not) that was later incorporated into Vertigo.

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Well, technically Swamp Thing would be the first Vertigo book, if we go by seniority - it predates Hellblazer, Sandman, and Animal Man (all titles which were segregated into the Vertigo line), and was also the first title (of all the titles that ended up in Vertigo, that is, I'm well aware there was quality, mature titles in the DCU before Moore's "Sophisticated suspense" take on Swampy) to have the mature situation and themes. Hellblazer WAS the last man standing, of course, and could be considered first title which was *conceived* from the get go as a mature readers comic (plus it predates Animal Man/Sandman by a couple of months, and I'm not sure Animal Man was Mature readers from the get-go, most likely not) that was later incorporated into Vertigo.

 

Animal Man wasn't labeled as "mature readers" until Jamie Delano took over the title.

Delano wrote one story-arc on AM right before the launch of Vertigo. Then, the remainder of Delano's run was part of the Vertigo imprint.

It was non-code approved during the Morrison tenure, and then it actually got the code approval after Morrison, although no one read the Tom Veitch run anyway (I did!).

But, that was all ret-conned away by Crisis of Parental Guidelines, the story-line that killed off Alan Moore from the DCU. Because, if you pick up a Grant Morrison Animal Man TPB, you will see the "mature readers" label on the book.

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No wonder my comic shop guy laughed this week when I cncelled my subscription to Hellblazer and asked to take 2000 AD instead.

 

I have not bothered to open the latest comic, I have been that uninterested in it recently.

 

sad to see it go but not as sad as it would have been if it had not been a parody of itself for so many issues.

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No wonder my comic shop guy laughed this week when I cncelled my subscription to Hellblazer and asked to take 2000 AD instead.

 

Finally you take my advice. :smile:

 

Most of you friggers should be reading 2000AD.

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Welcome to the club Avaunt.

And glad to see you back.

 

Here is some news>

Nrama: I'd be remiss not to mention something that a lot of people are talking about right now, and that's the end of Hellblazer. Obviously, Hellblazer and Justice League Dark co-existed for 14 months now. From a sales perspective can you give readers insight into why such a long-running title is being cancelled outright as opposed to say alternatively, Dark, Hellblazer and a Constantine title co-existing if the market would support them?

Cunningham: Well, I don't think it's quite rational to assume that the sales level of a current book would maintain if you created a second title in a different series of book. It would be great in the abstract if you could say, "Well, we can maintain a book here at this level while launching another one." But I don't think that's realistic in any way.

 

Nrama: So the key, from a sales standpoint, then, was "one at a time." And the more enticing one, for sales, would be in the DCU?

Cunningham: I think we've been very pleased with the reaction both critically and from fans and sales-wise with how we've used John Constantine in the DCU. And that series, as venerable as it was, has played a long time in Vertigo. And when you see more fertile, creative ground, you tend to move toward it.

 

Nrama: Is it accurate this perception that most of the "Dark" characters and concepts are on a one-way road back to the former DCU? That's what people are perceiving? Do you think that's accurate, that you're "moving" them over and that they're no longer Vertigo characters?

Cunningham: No, I think that people are looking at one-off decisions that are made creatively and trying to provide an overarching rubric that doesn't exist to it, which is why a lot of that delves into what I would call speculative fiction almost.

It's a business. We run it as a business. We look at titles and properties on an individual basis. I leave it to the rest of the world to come up with the overarching conspiracy theories of it all.

 

Nrama: Is it possible in the future we’ll see former DC characters get Mature Readers/Vertigo treatment?

Cunningham: Yeah, anything's possible. I haven't been involved and don't know of any discussions of such.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-vps-talk-october-2012-dc-sales.html

 

Mr Cunningham is VP of marketing at DC and conducts the interview in a rather passive aggressive manner.

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Yeah. I noticed that. Geez.

 

So, taking every DC company owned title from Vertigo and reintroducing them into the DC Universe isn't doing what Newsarama is asking? Is it really that hard for a corporation to give a straight answer to such a simple question? If Vertigo is moving in a solely creator owned direction, then why not put forth a company line about what exactly Vertigo is? Non-committal answers like that are what create these "over-arching conspiracy theories". Is it that hard to figure out, or is that the purpose?

Reading such a wishy-washy response from DC makes me immediately think, "He answers that way, because Vertigo must be on the chopping block, and he doesn't want to admit to it". Am I right? I don't know, but that's what it makes me think.

 

It is very surprising how much DC is depending on John Constantine right now. He's become our very own little Wolverine, he has.

I saw he's showing up in Phantom Stranger coming up. Amethyst. Animal Man.

Can he be helping sales? I can't see anything helping Amethyst's sales.

Guess what everyone? That means that Dan DiDio will not officially have written John Constantine, as he's the writer of Phantom Stranger. Aren't you excited?

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So they put a bullet in Hellblazer in the hopes of boosting sales for Constantine, good luck with that one chaps :hattip:

 

I've been struggling to maintain my interest in Animal Man & Swamp Thing over the last few months so I'm going to knock them on the head too while I'm at it, which means The Walking Dead is now the only comic I'm actually reading.

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Having said that, I didn't realise that Dark titles were holding up so strong sales wise, it's almost like I don't fit their demographic or something....

 

 

09/2011: Justice League Dark #1 -- 69,840 [81,955]

10/2011: Justice League Dark #2 -- 63,392 (- 9.2%)

11/2011: Justice League Dark #3 -- 51,674 (-18.5%)

12/2011: Justice League Dark #4 -- 44,750 (-13.4%)

01/2012: Justice League Dark #5 -- 40,996 (- 8.4%)

02/2012: Justice League Dark #6 -- 38,360 (- 6.4%)

03/2012: Justice League Dark #7 -- 36,089 (- 5.9%)

04/2012: Justice League Dark #8 -- 35,022 (- 3.0%)

05/2012: Justice League Dark #9 -- 34,649 (- 1.1%)

06/2012: Justice League Dark #10 -- 33,238 (- 4.1%)

07/2012: Justice League Dark #11 -- 31,792 (- 4.4%)

08/2012: Justice League Dark #12 -- 30,754 (- 3.3%)

09/2012: Justice League Dark #0 -- 34,287 (+11.5%)

 

Did a new team come on at #10 ? Looks like it might be shedding readers actually.

 

09/2011: Animal Man #1 -- 46,051 [65,229]

10/2011: Animal Man #2 -- 53,432 (+16.0%)

11/2011: Animal Man #3 -- 49,184 (- 8.0%)

12/2011: Animal Man #4 -- 42,630 (-13.3%)

01/2012: Animal Man #5 -- 40,573 (- 4.8%)

02/2012: Animal Man #6 -- 38,504 (- 5.1%)

03/2012: Animal Man #7 -- 36,860 (- 4.3%)

04/2012: Animal Man #8 -- 36,369 (- 1.3%)

05/2012: Animal Man #9 -- 35,699 (- 1.8%)

06/2012: Animal Man #10 -- 34,992 (- 2.0%)

07/2012: Animal Man #11 -- 33,909 (- 3.1%)

08/2012: Animal Man #12 -- 34,549 (+ 1.9%)

09/2012: Animal Man #0 -- 38,295 (+10.8%)

 

Rotworld to the rescue!

 

09/2011: Swamp Thing #1 -- 54,757 [73,683]

10/2011: Swamp Thing #2 -- 58,634 (+ 7.1%)

11/2011: Swamp Thing #3 -- 52,300 (-10.8%)

12/2011: Swamp Thing #4 -- 44,660 (-14.6%)

01/2012: Swamp Thing #5 -- 43,806 (- 1.9%)

02/2012: Swamp Thing #6 -- 41,235 (- 5.9%)

03/2012: Swamp Thing #7 -- 40,268 (- 2.4%)

04/2012: Swamp Thing #8 -- 39,431 (- 2.1%)

05/2012: Swamp Thing #9 -- 39,385 (- 0.1%)

06/2012: Swamp Thing #10 -- 37,383 (- 5.1%)

07/2012: Swamp Thing #11 -- 36,257 (- 3.0%)

08/2012: Swamp Thing #12 -- 36,696 (+ 1.2%)

09/2012: Swamp Thing #0 -- 40,123 (+ 9.3%)

 

Crossovers work!

 

Will Batman appear in an early issue of Constantine or is that more year two fodder ?

 

And for comparison purposes...

 

 

09/2011: Hellblazer #283 -- 9,597 (+2.4%)

10/2011: Hellblazer #284 -- 9,608 (+0.1%)

11/2011: Hellblazer #285 -- 9,500 (-1.1%)

12/2011: Hellblazer #286 -- 9,404 (-1.0%)

01/2012: Hellblazer #287 -- 9,368 (-0.4%)

02/2012: Hellblazer #288 -- 9,553 (+2.0%)

03/2012: Hellblazer #289 -- 9,363 (-2.0%)

04/2012: Hellblazer #290 -- 9,472 (+1.2%)

05/2012: Hellblazer #291 -- 9,426 (-0.5%)

06/2012: Hellblazer #292 -- 9,533 (+1.1%)

07/2012: Hellblazer #293 -- 9,247 (-3.0%)

08/2012: Hellblazer #294 -- 9,396 (+1.6%)

09/2012: Hellblazer #295 -- 9,143 (-2.7%)

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Three-in-a-row!

 

A post taken from elsewhere, DC meet your planned-audience for Constantine...

 

Have never read Hellblazer. I honestly had no idea it was still being published. 300 is quite a run though. I've gotten all of Transmetropolitan and almost all of Gaiman's Sandman in trade form but I don't think I could sit down and read 300 issues in trade by a ton of different writers. I'm not really much in to the Vertigo stuff anyway (tried Fables, Preacher, Y: The Last Man, House of Mystery for a few trades each and just couldn't bring myself to keep reading). I've read the first two volumes of American Vampire and at some point I made get the rest, but I'm in no rush for those.

 

Anyway, back to Constantine, I've enjoyed him well enough in Justice League Dark (which is really the most I've read of the character, aside from his appearances in Sandman). I'm not sure what Vendetti (sp?) is like as a writer, but I don't have much interest in reading his solo adventures. Part of the reason I like him so much in JLD is his chemistry with Zatanna and Deadman, and I doubt that will carry over to the new book.

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Good news though. Cheryl could be alive !

But Gemma (plus Chas' daughter and grand-daughter) would be gone just like Tefe. You know how the three headed kracken thinks of kids that aren't the Almighty Damien Wayne.

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Good news though. Cheryl could be alive !

But Gemma (plus Chas' daughters) would be gone just like Tefe. You know how the three headed kracken thinks of kids that aren't the Almighty Damien Wayne.

 

No, thankfully I don't.

Mind you, Gemma won't have been raped and then had that shitawful revenge story.

 

Reconsidering those figures, 35,000 people lost from JLD while Hellblazer has a 400 fall which is below average for its peers (similar sales books). Will be interesting to note the drop now that #0 was so poor/(aimed at other people)

 

And how much last month's JLD tpb sells.

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Part of the reason I like him so much in JLD is his chemistry with Zatanna and Deadman, and I doubt that will carry over to the new book.

 

Oh, gag me with a spoon. The chemistry between Deadman and John? If that's their demo, yeah, I am well out of it. People say I'm dark, but when they do, I'm going to point to a JLD cover and say "See, that's dark. Says so right on the cover, despite what transpires within, which is silly and anything but 'dark.'" See, I'm pleasantly dusky.

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The #0 issues seemed to all gain 4,000 readers.

 

Wait. So the person doesn't like changing creative teams, but they enjoy DC titles? They do realize that Justice League Dark got a new writer after about six issues, yes?

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Well this has been the shittiest day of all shitty days. I get home from watching my (formerly) #1 ranked Crimson Tide get just manhandled in its own stadium, feeling glum, I decide to see what's going on on this board, I e been busy this week and haven't checked in in a while. Surely that will cheer me up! Ugg! Worst day ever.

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