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Demon Chas08

This Is Where It Started (A comic called Hellblazer)

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slinker    893

yes, that's a good point. the choice is either downplaying it to the disgust of most of the fans or glorifying it to the horror of everyone else, including rational people. either way, someone's sensibility will be tested, if not outright insulted.

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seventhcircle    582

Seventh-Those elements of mythology you speak of were rarely used in HB though. It was mainly the Judeo-Christian mythos that were used in the book. Even the Trinity in Hell concept is just an inverse of the Holy Trinity of Christianity, and regardless if it had DCU elements, it's still a Judeo-Christian concept, since it's still Hell and it used beings who are considered demons (Azazel, Beelzebub, Satan).

The use of Nergal is based on the later Christianizing of Mesopotamian belief, rather than the Babylonian deity.

Australian mythology was only used for one story-arc, and that's considered a minor HB story (although I enjoyed it).

I only remember Aztec gods playing a role in the Mike Carey graphic novel.

 

That was just an example. I didn't mean that it had not heaven and hell and stuff as a basis. But HB was always open to alternative religions and mythology. Take the whole Fear Machine plot, or the camelot stuff with that annoying bush fairy. It is just that I hope that when they play the supernatural card (which they don't have to should'nt do all the time) I hope they will not solely focus on the judeo-christian thing. The world of mythological and magical themes is so much greater on our little planet called earth.

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Christian    744

You want to see the Green Lantern Corps, don't you?

 

Other than the somewhat annoying neo-paganism elements of the Fear Machine, it's really only been Paul Jenkins who has explored other mythologies outside of the Judeo-Christian wiorldview, and that was pretty much all Celtic (and/or Arthurian, if you weeel).

I'm not saying that the TV show can't explore outside of Western religions and traditions, but that HB has mainly been a comic that uses Judeo-Christian and Hermetic beliefs as the back-drop to its own mythology.

I mean, I, personally, don't really want to see a Hellblazer spin-off turn in to something more comfortable in the Sandman.

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seventhcircle    582

You want to see the Green Lantern Corps, don't you?

 

I don't understand, how did i give off that vibe?

 

I mean, I, personally, don't really want to see a Hellblazer spin-off turn in to something more comfortable in the Sandman.

 

We can agree on that, as much as I enjoyed sandman for that matter. The point I was trying to make, is that I hope for the show to not be afraid of exploring a little exotic stuff here and there (once a season or so).

 

Oh and HB also had vodoo stuff (which is not at all a judeo-christian thingy). So even if you take the aztec stuff away for being not in the monthly, I have twice as much (and more heavy) evidence as the "John is soooooo bi" peops ;)

 

And I liked the neo paganism stuff in fear machine!

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Christian    744

I was just kidding with you about the Green Lantern Corps line, because you said "greater than our little planet".

 

Oh, am I going to have to be that annoying pedantic guy, by saying Voodoo has some roots in Christianity, being a syncretism of traditional African religions with Catholicism during the days of slavery? heh

 

The Voodoo stuff will probably be used in the TV show, since Papa Midnite has already been cast.

I just hope they do some research. I get really tense when I hear pop culture is using Voodoo, since it's been used as such a racist motif for so long in popular culture.

Papa Midnite was sort of just a caricature in the comic too, even though I have all the respect in the world for Jamie Delano.

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Red    467

You want to see the Green Lantern Corps, don't you?

 

Other than the somewhat annoying neo-paganism elements of the Fear Machine, it's really only been Paul Jenkins who has explored other mythologies outside of the Judeo-Christian wiorldview, and that was pretty much all Celtic (and/or Arthurian, if you weeel).

Well, Carey used elements from Indian mythology (Red Sepulchre), Celtic mythos (Red sepulchre), aboriginal myths (third worlds) and Aztec mythology (All his engines). Delano brought in Babylonian mythology in Pandemonium.

I'd agree that judeo-christian mythology has been the most prevalent, but there's been a lot more than that over the years.

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James    38

Oooooh, okay, I'm feeling a bit old-skool nerdy at the minute. Let's give this a go...

 

Delano era

African hunger 'demon' and voodoo (HB 1); Swamp Thing and all that non-Christian mythology (HB 9-10); ley lines (HB 14-22); pagan gods (HB annual 1); Babylonian god-turned-Hell demon (anything with Nergal); African horror spirit (The Horrorist 1-2); body-swapping magic (HB 32); fuck knows - some kind of crazy psychotic episode/parallel universe ('Sundays are Different', HB 33); weird shit in the human subconscious (HB 25-26); parallel universes (HB 39-40).

 

Ennis era

Pagan god (The Lord of the Dance, HB 49); vampires (HB 62-63); voodoo (HB 72-75)

 

Jenkins era

A ghost causing reality to come unstuck (HB 85-88); the Aboriginal Dreamtime and snake god (HB 89-90); a tear in time (HB 91); fairies and British/Arthurian mythology (HB 92-95); ghost dog (literal, not samurai; HB 98); fairies again (HB 99 and loads more); the anthropomorphic personification of football violence (HB 101); the i-ching (HB 102); werewolves (HB 109); more Arthurian stuff, with pseduo ley-lines (HB 110-114); voodoo again (HB 115); British superstition (HB 116-117); reincarnation (HB 118); a psychic episode aboard a doomed plane (HB 199).

 

Ellis era

A room tainted by the evil deeds committed there (HB 140); an aborted anti-Christ that pisses evil into people's veins (HB 141); all kinds of goofy shit that's just been made up anyway, but I'd love the TV show to have a giant, baby-eating reptilian queen mother (HB 142).

 

Azzarello era

A vengeful zombie (HB 157); a book that tells the future (HB 163); a human golem (HB 167); fuck knows - giant killer bats or something (HB 170-174).

 

Carey era

People's souls being used as drugs (HB 175-176); Hindu goddess Kali (HB 177-180); creepy spirits sent by an old English god (HB 182-183); body-swapping magic again (HB 184); Aboriginal ghosts (HB 186); vampire-demon hybrids and de-aging bone magic (HB 187-188); scary dog thing from the garden of Eden (Judeo-Christian-ish, but not really part of an existing mythology; HB 189-193); a man whose body is infested with souls 197-199; fake memories from parallel lives (HB 200).

 

Diggle era

Humans being possessed for entertainment (HB 234-237); African cannibal magic (HB 238-242).

 

Issue 250

A suicide spell hidden in the Queen's speech; a factory burning up human human sin creates unexpected fallout; a crazed Egyptologist who wants to commit human sacrifice; a baseball team cursed by a goat.

 

Milligan era

 

Living embodiment of human guilt (HB 251-251); Babylonian gods (HB 256-258 and onwards); alchemy (whenever Epiphany's involved)... ugh, bit depressing going through this again so I'll stop here.

 

There are loads more scenes of general magic use and generic ghost tales, which both exist outside of the Judeo-Christian mythological sphere, but that's still a pretty wide range of stories, and gives some indication of how broad the series can be in its worldbuilding. I'd especially like to see something along the lines of the Sandman/Hellblazer mythos that says belief shapes reality, and that all gods and creation myths are equally valid - even if some are more powerful than others.

 

Incidentally, if anyone from the production crew wants me to consult, my rates are reasonable negligible.

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Guest Gillian   
Guest Gillian

Found this on Screenrant

 

Another awkward topic is the subject of smoking – a long-standing and extremely enthusiastic habit of Constantine’s, which cannot be shown on-screen due to NBC’s policies. Goyer has spoken in the past about the negotiations that have been going on with the network, and we asked him to outline exactly what they can and cannot show Constantine doing when it comes to cigarettes.

Goyer: Here’s the deal: We cannot show him inhale.

Cerone: We can show him putting out and lighting up.

Goyer: Our hope, our fervent hope, is that fans will see that and appreciate the attempt. Because, look, we can’t change broadcast standards, but what we can do is try and get away with as much as we can… I mean, he’ll talk about it, he is a smoker. We’re not saying he’s not a smoker. It’s not inconceivable that we could do in another season a version of that ‘Dangerous Habits’ storyline.

Outside of smoking, however, Cerone and Goyer assured us that they’e not going to be limited to nice gentle stories and themes.

Goyer: I’m glad we’re at NBC, the home of Hannibal and things like that. They want us to be truthful, they know it’s dark source material.

Cerone: As network writers we both get in the habit, you learn to censor yourself, because you know what you can get away with and you know what you’re going to get notes on. To NBC’s credit, they are literally… like, ‘No no no, kill that guy. Can you go a little darker here?’ They’re pushing us to really… Which is just, the floodgates open for us creatively. It’s just nothing but opportunity because it allows us to… honor the Hellblazer material.

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James    38

Cool! I hereby name this loophole 'The Clinton clause'.

 

All the best cig scenes were John just lighting up anyway.

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Guest Gillian   
Guest Gillian

Which means that cig's inhalation must be done offscreen, anything else is a fair game.

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Red    467

Cool! I hereby name this loophole 'The Clinton clause'.

 

Why?

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Gwilym    330

He's a bloody genius; no-one else ever gets away with being so pedantic in public. "I did not have sex with her. She inhaled."

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Lou K    1,057

Economy was just fine under Bill so I have nothing against him. Not like he's the first prez to bang interns. He just got caught.

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Tony B.    50

I've heard that JFK and RFK needed three women a day to feel normal. Not because they were easy but because they were hard.

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Christian    744

heh

 

Yeah...Because Clinton certainly didn't deserve to win the election solely because he smoked marijuana. My god, what is this nation coming to electing a guy who smoked weed...and in his younger days no less!

 

I've got a lot of problems with Clinton, but his sexual life and drug usage (as opposed to his ties to CIA drug smuggling, on the other hand, which helped launch his political career as a young man down in Arkansas) have nothing to do one way or another with any feelings about Clinton (or any political figures).

 

I see what should be done though. John Constantine should smoke weed instead of cigs in the TV show. It was obvious all along.

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