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Vagabond

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    Oh Saudi Arabia definitely funds terrorists, no question.I think US foreign policy since WWII has overall been a force for stability and led to greater democracy. Obviously there are exceptions. And no, neoconservatives also consider Saudi Arabia a threat to regional stability and a source of extremism. Even at David Horowitz'swebsite! There's a lot of problems in the Middle East, and a lot of them come from Iran exporting radical shiite ideology to Iraq and Lebanon. A lot of them come from Qatar and Saudi Arabia too. That doesn't mean the answer is for the US to seek detente with Iran. What the US is doing now is going to result in the Saudis getting nuclear weapons, greater support for extremism in the region as a counterweight to Iranian hegemony, and likely, a nuclear arms race. It's incredibly destabilizing. It's a similar process in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe, if not to the same degree.

     

    Also, I don't live in Israel. Interesting that you assume that.

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    No. Iran funds Hezbollah, which has committed heinous acts of terror that killed hundreds of civilians all over the world. Qatar funds ISIS/Al Qaeda. Other countries do not do this. Your comparisons are total bulllshit. I get where the isolationist impulse comes from, my problem with it is that the US withdrawing from the world sphere will be very bad for groups like the Japanese/South Koreans/Poles/Iraqi Sunnis, etc. You can say fine that's not america's problem but that's not moral to me. I guess that makes me a hawk.

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    Why shouldn't Iran have nuclear weapons? Because it's a revolutionaryregime with genocidal intent toward the Jews that has already destabilized Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen, and is the number one sponsor of terrorism in the world. Those sanctions are as good as gone, and were passed OVER obama's veto. If you want to be isolationist like Rand Paul, great. Because right now, the US is actively (EDIT: NOT FRONTPAGE LINK) defending Iran. Anyway, if you don't see Iran having nuclear weapons as a problem, we have nothing to to talk about. I don't want the US to be the world's police. I want the US to either be a good leader or isolationist. Right now it's far worse.

     

    @Dogpoet, See, that's also completely untrue! The US did not sell weapons to Israel until 1968, AFTER. THE. WAR. The IAF's air force in 1967 was mostly French stock, NO American equipment whatsover in the IDF at the time. Anyway, like I said, I don't feel like constantly going through and debunking the statements that you want to be true.

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    What exactly did the US do for Israel in 1967? Nothing, actually. And Israel's continued existence owes nothing to America, thank you very much. If you people want to deny that Obama is taking unprecedented turns in US policy toward detentewith Iran, and it's leading to a nuclear arms race, go ahead. Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time arguing when everyone else is on the other side, I'm the minority here and it's a pain to have to debunk all these distortions of the truth.

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    Ok lot of things that are not exactly true there. Israel didn't really get hit by the 2008 crash and there hasn't really been austerity like in europe. nobody is interested in the US attempting to nation-build in Iran. And, most of all, the US does not subsidize Israel's economy. The state budget is 328 billion. The US gives Israel around 1 billion in aid and 2 billion in loans. This is essentially a drop in the bucket. It's a bigger deal for Egypt. The entire Arab world is essentially in agreement with Israel and against Obama when it comes to Iran.

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    Yeah it's obama hostility, israelis in general are very fond of the US, but obama is (rightly) seen as 1. being reckless/empowering Iran. 2. interfering in Israeli elections (Bill Clinton and Bush I also did this). Netanyahu's not all that popular but that's more for his economic policies. His security hawk stance is pretty much the country's stance. In fact, it's the only reason he keeps getting elected. After the intifada and the gaza withdrawal, the country definitely became more right wing on security issues. Labor is not seen as credible on this. Netanyahu's domestic policies are fairly unpopular (on the other hand unemployment is low and the economy keeps growing, it could be worse).

     

    The US aid/loan money is around 1% of Israel's GDP and 1/8 the IDF's yearly budget. It's nice, but it also comes with a lot of strings attached, and it means Israel doesn't own the military technology they develop. Israel could do without it. Egypt's been alright since the US cut them loose.

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    in Bring the Noise

    Posted

    Eh, I don't really see an alternative to netanyahu, and the more the US tries to interfere, the more support he'll get. the US spent a LOT of money this election backing his opposition and he won in a landslide. that being said, 61 seats is unstable, I think he'll try to bring labor or more likely yesh atid into the coalition. It's 61 seats now because the leader of the russian party did something sneaky.

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