kilyth

did it leave a bad taste in anyone else's mouth that, after two episodes of heavy-handed moralising about the Flesh people being just as valid and entitled to life as anyone else, we got the double-whammy of the "oh, and by the way, the TARDIS made you properly human after all" cop-out, followed by the Doctor straight-up executing the fuck out of ganger-Amy with barely a second thought? This sort of thing has happened before - Moffat occasionally seems to have a real problem with thinking through the moral implications of his clever plot twists - but it was particularly glaring here.

 

 

Yes, absolutely.

I remember seeing Patterson Joseph in Neverwhere. If he's really in the running I hope his acting has improved drastically.

i'd like to see a complete unknown in the role.

The Master wheeling the near-catatonic "old" Doctor around in a wheelchair, while singing and dancing along to 'I Can't Decide'. Made particularly brilliant by the look of bored resignation on his wife's face as she stands in the background, which makes it pretty clear that he's been regularly doing much the same thing for the entire preceding year.

 

. Brilliant.

You're so completely wrong that a word has yet to be invented for how wrong you are, but rest assured; you are it.

Sarah Jane's terrified expression during the whole Dalek reveal made the episode.

 

As, indeed, did the Doctor getting zapped - we were sure Rose was going to get it so let out a cheer when the Dalek finally appeared, this was quickly followed by exclamations of surprise and disbelief as the Doc got exterminated.

 

Unfortunately the big large blinking reset switch has me wary of that actually going anywhere.

 

The rumours (and these are big potential spoilers so don't talk about them outside of spoiler tags)

that the regeneration field 'jumps' onto the Doctor's severed hand, growing a clone of the current Doctor are pretty lame.

I agree with you about the big red Reset button, visible out of the corner of my eye, is very distracting.

As for your spoilery-speculation

OK, colour me stupid, but I don't really get how it "stole" his voice. There didn't seem to be any aspects of what I would consider "voice stealing". CV reckons that she stole his vocabulary, as evidenced by "Allons-y" and "Multo Bene" but why would it need to steal his vocab since the body it was in had a perfectly serviceable vocabulary of its own. It didn't seem to do anything with The Doctor's vocabulary either.

It struck me more as RTD coming up with a cool phrase "Oh noes! It hav stolend Doktor's voice!" and then trying to build a story round it. If it'd just been called an assimilation on intelligence, or language I'd have bought it but, to me, stealing a voice would mean that the being would either have The Doctors voice and sound like him, or that the being would be saying what The Doctor would say, therefore would be rational and not so anxious to chuck people out of airlocks.

One last thought: does this mean that Future Doctor is out there somewhere without his screwdriver? What will he do? Or do you think that he made up a dummy one to give River?

He's already replaced one of the things, hasn't he? (Eric Saward has said that he always thought there was a drawer full of things somewhere in the TARDIS and he was quite surprised that Nathan-Turner used it getting blown up in The Visitation as an excuse to do away with it altogether...)

Dammit! I'd forgotten about that. Probably 'cause I've been trying to block S&J from my memory.

What I didn't like;

River Song. I hate it when they give the Doctor girlfriends...

The finger snapping. I'm hoping that next time he tries it he'll be getting chased by something 'orrible and it won't work, so he winds up running into the door at full pelt and getting knocked unconcious.

The uploading of River Song. I can't be the only one for whom being trapped forever in a virtual world with the same 6 people would be hell. though I suppose if I had access to every book ever written...

What I did like;

Everything else.

One last thought: does this mean that Future Doctor is out there somewhere without his screwdriver? What will he do? Or do you think that he made up a dummy one to give River?

I did not read The Time Traveller's Wife, but it did cross my mind as a source.

 

Oh, you should read it - certainly before the movie comes out. Pay no attention to what Kilyth says.

Don't worry that brain of yours, I will.

My main dislike was that there was too much wife and not enough time-travelling. Yes, I know it's called The Time Travellers Wife, but it felt kind of like reading an account of Columbus' travels as written by his wife back in Spain; you wonder why she's doing it, since he's the one having the adventures.

I have read the Time Traveller's Wife (didn't think much of it TBH), and I couldn't stop thinking about it during this ep. Honestly I don't know if I like where this River Song thing is going and am only hanging on by telling myself that she'll turn out to be Romana.

I don't like this whole Doctor + Women thing. I don't like it one bit.

Did anyone happen to spot what Martha's point was in this episode? besides showing that the Hath weren't completely murderous, which I'm sure could have been done without her. She came, got captured, walked back, killed her friendly Hath, and then went home. I don't think I even heard her say "Don't shoot, they're friendly".

Anyone? Point of Martha?

Overall, I found it good. A bit on the 'meh' side, but certainly watchable. My enjoyment may have been tempered somewhat by my memories of what that writer did to the Daleks last series. But come on! I can't have been the only one who spent the last scene shouting "Break the sodding windows!!" at the telly.

There's bound to be one out there for that much.

If you dont' like the MP3 analogy what about; they're like a laptop, or a washing machine, or a dishwasher; they're not cheap, but they're useful to have. "Everyone has one" may not necessarily mean everyone. I could say "Everyone has a phone" or "Everyone wears socks". Lots of people do, but not literally everyone, but enough so that they're commonly seen.

Maybe 50 credits = about €500, so they're expensive but popular, like MP3 players.

Showing how cheap the Ood were, although there is no actual indication how much pounds credits are worth. According to the last Christmas special, 1,000,000 pounds are equivalent to 50,000,000 credits. That makes 50 credits 1 pound.

We don't know that PotO was set anywhere near VotD, chronologically, do we? It's possible that in the 42nd century 50 credits is a lot of money, the same way that 50 pounds today isn't a lot, but a couple of hundred years ago you could buy an estate with it.

I loved Planet of the Ood. It's what I've been after for ages; proper alien planet, proper aliens, humans being the bad guys for once.

The only thing is that The Doctor didn't do much at all. He turns off the bombs and shuts down The Circle, but if he hadn't Ood Sigma would have.

Great though 4.5/5.

That's a really good review, Mark. Your points about Davies' last gesture on the programme being the resurrection/reintroduction of the Time Lords and Gallifrey makes sense and it's probably something that Davies is building towards. I don't think that he'd have introduced something as drastic as the destruction of Gallifrey without planning how he can bring it back at some point. I'd love to see it happen anyways although having seen The Deadly Assassin I hope the Time Lords assume a more austere, alien significance.

I too am of the opinion that Davies is sitting in his secret underground Welsh bunker rubbing his hands together and writing a story about the lost planet of Gallifrey being found down behind the TARDIS' console room sofa, along with the Adipose's world, the Pyrovile's world and £37.42 in tuppence's.

Question for all Who-obsessives here (it's probably a very stupid one, but bear with me): In retrospect, was the cancellation of the series back in 89 (or 86?) the best thing that could have happened to the programme? Before anyone leaps in with "Yes", do you think there was potential for whoever took over after Cartmel/McCoy to make the series great again without taking the show off-air? I ask because, as riddled with faults as they might be, one or two of the storylines from the McCoy era were interesting...

My gut reaction would be “no, it needed to be taken off the air”, because once something has started rolling it’s very difficult to make it change direction without stopping it first. However, I haven’t seen any McCoy stories, so I don’t actually know what needed to be fixed. I know that Tom Baker feels that the rot set in in his last couple of years when a new producer started putting question marks on his clothes, and I would be under the impression that this man was also responsible for 5’s stick of celery, 6’s outlandish outfits and 7’s umbrella. Possibly it would have been possible to revamp the series with the successive producer, but by that stage Who had become something a joke, so I think that the break was necessary to allow Who to settle into the national consciousness in order for it to be a fondly remembered series upon its return, rather than a rather naff joke

I'm probably thinking too much about it but what's the difference between the Doctor saving those folks from Pompei and Rose saving her father back in the first season ?

Initially I thought that it must be a family who escaped Pompeii, and that Caecilius wrote what he saw. However, according to Wiki, Caecilius had died during the earthquake in 62ad, which would make writing an account of the eruption a bit difficult. I can't really say what effect it might have, but I would certainly imagine that the galactic consequences of a man who's been dead for 15 years being found alive after Pompeii would be pretty weighty.

Apart from (the godawful) Web Planet, were there any Who stories that did this prior to Davie's relaunch? The glut of stories set in early C21 CardiffLondon is a sticking point, but I'm not sure the "concerning humans" thing is a fair criticism of the rest. Even the Time Lords are human enough in biology and perspective to interbreed, after all, so it's an understandable form of chauvinism on the Doctor's part.

Ok, I'll give you the "concerning humans" bit. I know that using humans and aliens who look very human-y is by far the easiest thing to do, especially with the graphics being as dodgy as they are. But wouldn't you like to know what happened to the rest of Chantho's conglomeration?

Just looking over all the New Who episodes and I've noticed something, forgive me if you've heard this rant before:

Rose Set on earth

The End of the World Set on earth

The Unquiet Dead Set on earth

Aliens of London Set on earth

World War Three Set on earth

Dalek Set on earth

The Long Game Set on earth

Father's Day Set on earth

The Empty Child Set on earth

The Doctor Dances Set on earth

Boom Town Set on earth

Bad Wolf Set on earth

The Parting of the Ways Set on earth

New Earth Concerning Humans

Tooth and Claw Set on earth

School Reunion Set on earth

The Girl in the Fireplace Set on earth

Rise of the Cybermen Set on earth

The Age of Steel Set on earth

The Idiot's Lantern Set on earth

The Impossible Planet Concerning Humans

The Satan Pit Concerning Humans

Love & Monsters Set on earth

Fear Her Set on earth

Army of Ghosts Set on earth

Doomsday Set on earth

Smith and Jones Set on earth

The Shakespeare Code Set on earth

Gridlock Concerning Humans

Daleks in Manhattan Set on earth

Evolution of the Daleks Set on earth

The Lazarus Experiment Set on earth

42 Concerning Humans

Human Nature Set on earth

The Family of Blood Set on earth

Blink Set on earth

Utopia Concerning Humans

The Sound of Drums Set on earth

Last of the Time Lords Set on earth

Partners in Crime Set on earth

Fires of Pompeii Set on earth

There are about 300 billion stars in the Milky Way alone, each of which could potentially have a planet capable of supporting life. Can we, please, see an episode that's not only set a long, long way from Earth, but doesn't concern Humans in any way, shape or form; except for the one that the Doctor brings with him. Please! Please! I'm on my knees!

Would I sound unfeasibly smug I pointed out that I had a horror story printed along these lines year? (I'd be smugger still if any bugger had actually read it...)

Ooooo! do I smell a lawsuit on your part?

LOL, that's a first for me!

As for the episode, I give it 3/5

Stuff I liked:

The Adipose; it was nice to see a "baddy" who wasn't really bad, and who was terribly cute

The Adipose Ship; Nice. I liked the sound it made too.

The wide shot of The Doctor alone in the TARDIS- really gave the feeling of how much he needed company.

The Doctor inviting Donna along without meaning to, and then realising a) what he's let himself in for and b) that he can't get out of it.

Sarah Lancashire.

The Doctor acknowledging that Martha's crush made things complicated, and that he didn't want that.

The seeming throwaway line about turning the heating up. Being a Who uber-nerd is satisfying sometimes.

Stuff I didn't like so much;

Donna. She just grates on my nerves.

The battle of the sonics. Is this the first time that a non-Gallifreyan sonic device has shown up? Are we going to be inundated by a pile of sonic device wielding baddies this series?

The whole "I want a mate" thing that went on and on. He's a nine hundred year old alien genius, does he not have a thesaraus?

Donna. If you're going to whinge and complain, then dont' go!

Other stuff;

The graphics for the Adipose were terrible, but they beat the Wirren, so I'll let them off with that.

The conversation in sign through the glass, I shouldn't like it, but I kind of did.

I'm not Rose's biggest fan, but her apperance was interesting.

Rumblings over at Cook'd and Bomb'd that Steven Moffat has signed the contract to become the new New Who producer.

 

Hurrah!

HUZZAR!!!!!

If that's not a reason for celebration, I don't know what is.

Thanks for the links everyone, I've found them and started downloading, so that's pretty much how I'm spending my evenings these days.

As for introducing myself in the designated thread, I guess I will, but I've been lurking so long that it kind of feels like I already know ye.

Hi folks, I've been lurking around here, using my better half's id, for some months, but seeing the turn that this thread has taken I am becoming acutely aware of my abysmal lack of knowledge of Doctors 1 to 3 and 5 to 7, and I'm hoping that someone might be able to tell me where I could rapidly acquire these episodes so that I too may contribute my most and least favourite episodes.

As it stands at the moment

Tom Baker: Shada/The Leisure Hive

ChrisEccleston: The Empty Child+The Doctor Dances/Boomtown

David Tennant: Human Nature+Family of Blood/Last of the Time Lords