ElrazielMoon

My version of chapter 253:

John is walking the streets of London, as he sees the general depression in the faces of the people, and sees the collapsing of the dream stream, he realices that the war in hell is just an aspect of something bigger and Gaudium didn't told him all the truth. Later he is in a corner in a bar taking some notes about the possible oponents that he will face in Hell, two of them are Triskelle and Nergal, in that moment, a familiar face shows up: Ellie stands in front of him, seeing his notes. The two of them talk for a while, but there are much untrusting between them, until Ellie finally decides to tell him about the war in Hell, and that she can help him, because she and some others want to change as things work in Hell. At first, John is suspicious, but Ellie manages to convince him, and decides to take him to the place where are the other hiding, in an abandoned house, that suspiciously has been enchanted by a sigil similar that the one John used to hide Ellie. Both of them enter the house and John is surprised to see that one of the rebels of Hell is his own daugther.

My idea for chapter 252:

In an apartment in London there's a couple: Gemma Masters and Angie Spatchcock. Both girls had passed for too much toghether, and both had grown in the path of Magic, and Gemma had grown dissapointed with men, so the two girls decided to begin a relationship. They are having their breakfast when John Constantine arrives to talk to Angie, seemingly surprised to see Gemma with her, but he becomes glad to see his niece happy. The three go out to talk and have a drink when in the bar turns out the topic of the girls practicing magic, John becomes very upset and begins to recriminate Angie, there's a discussion that ends in a fight in the bar. John is tossed out and Angie goes to talk to him, she says that Gemma is capable of taking her own chances and making her own decisions, and points that Gemma made her mind with Magic a long time ago, a thing that John hardly accepts. At last Angie asks John why he came to see her and John awnsers "It doesn't matter, sorry for the trouble luv", and leaves

Now, my idea for chapter 251:

A young girl is wandering in London streets, with too much questions in her mind, about her identity, her past, her present, her future, her parents, especially her dead mother and her father that may not be very willing to welcome her. Some time ago, she escaped Hell because of the interminable wars that were waging and beacuse of the Devil traying to force her to support him in this war. At some point she is intercepted for a gang of thugs that try to assault her. She can easily disspose of them thanks to her demonic and magic habilities, but then one of them is about to shoot her with a gun, when he is stopped for a female demon that had been hiding from Hell for years: Ellie. Both girls speak about her experiences being exiled from Hell, and finally they speak about the topic of the war. So both of them decide to go to the father of the girl: John Constantine.

well, I have an idea for the chapter 250. There's the sinopsys:

John is wondering what will he do now that he is finally free from his brother, when he is contacted for a demon named Gaudium, who says that he works with Christopher Rudd, a damned from Hell that wants to dethrone the Devil. At first, John laughs at him and casts him out, but when the Devil himself tries to intimidate him to not help Christopher, then John begins to wonder if this could be his best chance to get rid of him once for all, and when Gaudium appears again and offers him the freedom of all the ghosts from his past, John makes his mind.

well, after reading the entire 75 chapters of Lucifer, I understand that an entire crossover with Hellblazer could not be much possible, but at least there are some of the characters that I'd like to be in HB, so that's the wishlist I now have, even that's an idea of what would be the "great plan" of the Devil. /Spoiler: A plan to stop the desmantelation of Hell, maybe to prevent the accending of Ellaine, in wich John could play a crucial role, in one way or another, and the Devil realising to his horror, that Hell has always been under Heaven's dominion, taking in mind that time has too many ways to flow, and maybe Lillith could have something of a resurrection or a rebirth (or maybe not). Maybe would be interesting a brief interview between Ellaine and John, even after the interview with God didn't go too well.

Another idea for the remaking would be the forming of a new Coven under John's "leadership" (yeah, we all know John sucks badly as a leader, but maybe that could be some evolution after getting rid of the negative influence of his dead Brother and that could be a challenge for him)

Is that from Lucifer #50 that you are referencing? If not, you'll want to check out that issue, as it's even titled "Lilith".

Yeah, I recently read that issue, /Spoiler: the one that tells Lillith was one that inspired Lucifer to rebel against Heaven, and Mazikeen is almost as old as humanity itself, still don't know the result of the confrontation between Mazikeen and Lillith.

That makes me think that the remaking could be an entire crossover between Hellblazer and Lucifer

well, I found a mention of Lillith in the comic of Lucifer. <Spoiler: In fact, Mazikeen, the Consort of Lucifer is decsendant of Lillith, but more than that, there is no more mention to her, but this is a good startpoint.

Still I haven't finished reading the history of Lucifer yet, so maybe I can find more mentions, but at the moment this is suficient.

^Epiphany is the All-New, All-Different Wolverine!

 

Lilith was used in the new Lucifer comic book recently.

 

John and Lucifer met briefly near the start of Carey's Lucifer. It was hinted that they had a back-story.

Well, as I said, the idea is remaking a better Epiphany, so she is a Marie Sue no more. As for Lillith, well, just take aside all that from New 52, we're just taking the old history that finished in chapter 300 in 2013. And for Lucifer, is obvious that at some point one at least had learned about the other, but the idea is more of an close asociation (or a confrontation if that is the case)

Are you sure you want to remember that one?

Given how fluids are spread during unprotected rumpy pumpy, Shelly BondEpiphany Greaves-Constantine now also has a healing factor that retards the ageing process, right?

Well, just remember the idea of remaking all the fifty chapters, and that includes the charachter of Epiphany, but yes, this must be a present element on all history (that would later crash in Joh's face... muajajajajajajajajaja)

Another loose end must be:

- John's tainted blood on Angie: do you remember when Angie was beaten almost to death? and remember when she was in the hospital, John put some of his blood in Angie? and remember that this accelerated Angie's recuperation? well, then must remember than now Angie's blood is also tainted

Now, I expose an idea: What if there began a relationship between Gemma and Angie? (any type of relationship, is up to you to decide) and as part of this relationship, Angie began to teach more about magic to Gemma. Obviously, John has a deep disagreament with this

Well, here's the fanart i made

This is a fanart that I am working on:

https://www.facebook...?type=3

Don't get me started on Finn: another mistake of Milligan's. The only way he would work is if he was born the same time as Tricia Chandler or just have him be a distant younger cousin from Auntie Jean's side of the family. But NOOPE! Fuck logic

As I said: just a fill charachter without a real relevance on history (yes, from time to time is good to have some of these, but Milligan made a mediocre atempt to give him some relevance and this just made things worse)

I will be waiting, Lady

Another loose end must be:

- Demon John's feelings towards Kit: I am sure I am not the only one thar is wondering about this VERY IMPORTANT aspect John gave to his "evil twin", this aspect should be more developed, and this was a terrible failure of Milligan in John's wedding, and one of the reasons I say that the raping of Gemma was toooooooooooooo forced. But in general this was a too poorly exploited aspect every time Demon John appeared

- The Masons: If they are an all-powerful organization in the shadows, why they were vanished from earth after the Jallakuntilliokan incident? They should have something to say about the notorious magician that had been so relevant in great supernatural incidents in London, and even in Europe. Aldo, that would be a great excuse for the Pagan Nation to show up again

Another maybe:

- Chas: A friend told me an interesting theory about Chas being an agent of God in John's live, and that would make very much sense about Chas being the only one John's friend that has lasted toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long (even that could be an excelent reason for Mary Constantine beggining to question her hellish origins)

And now, I will add a wishlist:

- Lucifer Morningstar: Just think about it: Don't you think a magician with the skill to fool God and defeat the Devil could atrack the atention of the Morningstar? even the magician that managed to fool The Laughing Magician? I really think that

- Lillith: The first woman on earth from Jewish mitology. I think that could be a great adition to John's history, even be a conflict factor in Hell.

- Brexit: Don't you think that John could have something to say about the Brexit? yeah, all of us could say that John doesn't care, but this topic could be an interesting start point for a plot

for anyone that could be interested, there are the thread for the remaking:

http://hellblazer.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10519#entry379251

Well, I will make the jump, so for the purpose of remake the last 50 chapters of Hellblazer I would suggest as first step to analice the good things or the potential good things (even if some of you consider that there wasn't) that these chapters had. There are some of my suggestions:

- Epiphany Greaves (If the character were more developed this would be more than a fantasy of a dirty old man or a Mary Sue)

- A conflict between John and Gemma (there was a good idea, bad execution. I would suggest that in this case Gemma was following John steps, just that would become a great conflict)

- An intromision of Demon John (Leaving the raping factor apart, I would suggest that Demon John, for example, tempted Gemma to go to Hell to try and rescue her mother)

- The Great Plan of the Devil (there was a good idea with great potential that Milligan just tossed to the can, this idea would be more developed, even woud give material to more than 50 chapters)

- John's middle age sentimental crisis (well, John is not exactly in his middle age, but this crisis would motivate some important decitions in John)

Also, there are some loose ends that should be more worked to make a more complete history.

- The Pagan nation (at last there never were a real consecuence of John leaving the pagan nation, well some will say that John always did that with friends, lovers, etc. but the P.N. should have something to say in some events in John's live, particulary Zed and Mercury and particulary about the Golden Child)

- Chantinelle (She has a great potential to be a pivotal character in the history of Hellblazer, and I consider that her potential was too poorly worked)

- The son of Tali and Chantinelle (In another world there was a son of an angel and a succubus named Genesis, sou one can wonder ¿what become of the son of Tali and Chantinelle?)

- Mary Constantine (so, yes, she cuestioned her hellish origins, and yes, she began to become more human, then what? there should be more history in that)

- The spirits haunting John (At least what became of them? what should be their destiny? there's some posibility that they can be redeemed as Astra?)

- The Archangel Gabriel (I'm sure I'm not the only one that is wondering what happened to Gabriel after The Devil crushed his hearth, he is supposed to be condemned to hell, and then what?)

And then there are some maybes, every one can guess if they must be in the history or not

- The former lovers of John (Well, maybe some of you are wondering what became of them, especially Kit, and maybe some of you wish to reinvindicate the girls that were invited to John's wedding, so this is a maybe)

- Gloria (what if the rebellion of Chantinelle inspired some other demons? maybe Gloria could be one of them, or maybe not)

- Nergal (maybe some of you enjoy seeing how John beats and humilliates him, but maybe some of you are too tired of him and want to get rid of him once for all)

As far as there goes those are the plot elements that I consider should be in an eventual remaking (except for the maybes) of this stage of the Hellblazer history, Maybe more ideas come later. For now let the exercise begin.

well yes, the raping of Gemma was definitively too forced and i could make a list of argumental mistakes commited by Milligan, and yes, he commited the worst crime in literature and comic: to force a history, and yes, the chapters from 250 to 300 had too much mistakes and failures, but also had some aspects with great potential, so I could give you this crazy idea: what if we make the exercise of remaking the history in this forum?

 

i think remaking a history would be rather fun idea :) why not?

yeah, Lady, we agree in the fact that those chapters had their potential, so Why not?

But there should be a forum just for this

so... I am first? or who?

your welcome. I really liked Hellblazer, and I really like the character of John Constantine, and also I consider it a great exercise as an aspiring comic artist

well yes, the raping of Gemma was definitively too forced and i could make a list of argumental mistakes commited by Milligan, and yes, he commited the worst crime in literature and comic: to force a history, and yes, the chapters from 250 to 300 had too much mistakes and failures, but also had some aspects with great potential, so I could give you this crazy idea: what if we make the exercise of remaking the history in this forum?

Please excuse me for my late introduction.

My name is Tairon Cutiva and I am from Colombia, I am an aspiring comic artist. I am a fan of Hellblazer. Please to meet you all.

Now, if you ask me about characters as Julian and Finn they were just character fill, so they were indeed the worst failures of Milligan and they would not be missed

Now that I think of it, Epiphany was indeed a Mary Sue in the fact that she was too focused to be the daughter of a dangerous and violent gangster, I assure you, if there was more work on her background and her disfunctional family live and the consecuences this live had in her, her potential would have been truly realiced, but i would not go as far as to depreciate her (she was no as boring as the characters of Steven Seagal :v )

well, respect Epiphany, yes, that is understandable, but that would be, as Kwai Chang Kaine says, a good idea, but the excecution must be discussed, but in general I liked Epiphany (not as much as Kit, told again). She had a potential as an alchemist and as a character as disfunctional as John, again, in other hands but Milligan's she would have been a better character. But remember: the beginning of their relationship was very difficult, so that could save (even a little) the notion of her being "the true love of John" (but yes, I agree with you that Milligan didn't have to make the chambonada of destroy the past love partners of John)

Respect Gemma, yes, the Gemma of Milligan was only a pale shadow of the former Gemma, so yes, is the best to take some aspects of her selfguilty (as selguilty as John) and leave the rest out (maybe she could have been a good John Constantine in female version)

Something that I didn't like about the Hellblazer history in general was the loose end thas was left with the Pagan Nation (speaking of the Milligan tendencies of leaving loose ends). In fact, I could make a list of the loose ends that i didn't like, but, as someone told in this very forum, if for some crazy syncronicity, the history of Hellblazer were to be continued, this chapter would be seen with another eyes, and those loose ends would be retaken and properly chained in the history

I would say that Milligan had a lot of good ideas very bad realiced, but those ideas in another hands would have been very good