JasonT

That primo comic captures what I've always loved about Mr T's television persona - that the fact he's big and menacing gives him the right to be belligerent and verbally abusive.

 

His dialogue in those panels is ripped off from Mich*el J*ckson anyway. :)

 

- Jason

Yes, and yes. What's your point? :)

 

 

- Jason

Mr.E.D.Meaner:

So you mean to say you drew it/photoshopped it ?

 

Sure did. It's not too different from the source photo, which Tom correctly ID'd as coming from that shite movie Dune.

 

I looks like a cross between Sting and Billy Idol

 

Be careful what you wish for. Click on over to...

 

http://hellblazer.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=565

 

(If the link is broken, it's "Billy Idol as Constantine" in the Show Your Wares section.)

 

- Jason

...one question, is that John Constantine in your avatar? It looks like a cross between Sting and Billy Idol  haha

 

I hope the rest of you had some time on your hands over the Christmas break, too. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

From John's Mucous Membrane days:

 

 

 

And, um...

 

 

The pics aren't appearing in the preview, but I'm gonna cross my fingers and hit "post".

 

- Jason

JAMES:

How big was the pic? There're limits to the dimensions and size in K

 

Nah, it's identical to the old avatar, just with the hair trimmed very slightly. The problem must have been with the forum's arcane inner workings, because the new avatar has just now spontaneously replaced the old. :huh: Delayed reaction?

 

So you can see the revised avatar on your left now. Or your right, if you're Leo Manco.

 

- Jason

ADRIAN:

Note from Mark: It's a scottish term. So, we can deduce that Keith will sound like Billy Connolly.

 

Or like Robert Carlyle in Trainspotting. ;)

 

 

Page 10 ... Note cars and buses on wrong side of the road.

 

That'd be the old artists' trick of using a mirror to get street scenes.

 

- Jason

ADRIAN:

Jason, you're not quite right about touts. They mostly stand outside gigs (and sold out shows) offering tickets for sale.

 

Fair enough. I've spent more time at Tube stations than at the theatre, so I got a false impression. :) Or has LU's crackdown on Underground touts actually had some effect?

 

- Jason

Bog off, Willecome. :) Sting IS Constantine.

 

Mr E, the avatar was inspired by Tim B's spiky gel-haired Constantine. I tried to give it a haircut yesterday, but couldn't upload the new pic.

 

Billy Idol as Constantine? Hmm...

 

- Jason

JOSH:

What is meant by a well-turned wrist?

 

A well-turned wrist is shapely. "Turned" refers to the imaginary lathe work that created the wrist, not to the position the wrist is held in. Dunno where the expression comes from.

 

How did Map know anything was coming for him?

 

Map's omniscient. To a degree. :)

 

Is Keith supposed to be of a particular ethnic background and if so, what is it?

 

His idiom is London, if that's what you mean. He looks a tiny bit like Robert Carlyle in Trainspotting. He also looks remotely Slavic, but I think that's just a Leo Manco thing.

 

When he looks at Constantine at the dinner table, his eyes are peculiarly aware for a rat's, like he's trying to communicate with John then.

 

Look at panel 2: he's delivering an I Ching reading. :)

 

Do we know what medical problem Clarice has?

 

Old age. I thought she had a heart attack.

 

What is a ticket tout, and what's the significance of Shaftesbury Avenue?

 

Shaftesbury is the heart of the theatre district. Touts are scalpers who harass passersby. The term more commonly refers to scalpers of Tube (subway) tickets.

 

The truck driver's warning might sound threatening to an American woman. It doesn't faze Maria (of course). Would this conversation be normal among any groups of people in England?

 

I had no problem with it. "It's your funeral" sounds a bit contrived, but the rest sounds like the chiding a father might give a girl young enough to be his daughter.

 

Do you think it's normal for Chas to give up a cab fare because he wants to finish a crossword puzzle?

 

I'm on shaky ground here, but Gatwick is an airport out of town, and unless I'm mistaken, a "Gatwick run" would be a pain in the arse for a taxi driver who wasn't already parked at the airport. Anyone from London care to comment on whether the controller really could have had a taxi there in "ten minutes"?

 

It took me a few days of reading and rereading #202 to realize that the skull John is holding on the cover is Chas'.

 

Is it? ;) Tim...?

 

- Jason

This seems like just the right thread to post a Christmas greeting in.

 

I tried to skip the whole thing this year, on account of me not being a Christian and the occasion being a meaningless, pointless, subverted exercise in consumer madness. But as bastard luck would have it, I had to visit the rellies (Josh: that means relatives :) ) anyway, and spent much of the rest of the day returning calls and SMSs. Bah! Not one of my plans for the day went off. Not frickin' one.

 

Anyway, happy Santa's birthday, everyone. For yesterday.

 

- Jason

Red's right, you'd have to tailor your choice to the tastes of your friend. But that's not the spirit Spiderlegs asked the question in, is it? :) So, three commicks to sway an anonymous newbie:

 

1. The Tale of One Bad Rat

2. Swamp Thing 43 / Essential Vertigo Swamp Thing 24 ("Windfall")

3. The Dark Knight Returns

 

Moore & Campbell's The Birth Caul is a better comic than TDKR, but it's pretty heavy. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen volume 1 and the first Promethea trade belong in there too, but TDKR is more accessible to the newbie. Maybe.

 

Which comic would I keep if I had to give up the rest? The issue of the Carl Barks Library in Colour with Donald Duck in "Trick or Treat" (with deleted panels restored). Never forget where you came from.

 

- Jason

Lovely work, and so is your stuff on britcomicart.com.

 

Does the playing card remind anyone else of a razor blade? I suppose it's unintentional, but it's pretty cool anyway.

 

- Jason

I've been raving about Iron Man 1 to everyone, but now I'm not so enraptured.

 

No doubt Warren is a great guy, etc etc, but I gots two ongoing problems with his writing:

 

1. He's not good at structure or pacing.

2. His scripts are padded and under-written.

 

I thought Iron Man 1 had overcome the latter problem - in fact I thought Adi Granov was the perfect collaborator for Warren, because when Warren tries to fill a whole page with three panels, Adi makes it worth the price of admission. I thought, not a lot happened in that issue, but it was still much better than Warren's usual.

 

But then John had to go and point out that Iron Man 1 was a double issue, which I hadn't noticed. Hmm.

 

Does Granov's art remind anyone else of The Trigan Empire?

 

- Jason

If anyone still cares, the tree tatt last appeared in issue 95 when JC bonded with Crowley. IIRC. [EDIT: I mean that's the most recent appearance prior to "A Fresh Coat of Red Paint", which John M cited.]

 

James, thanks for the tip about logging on to the DC boards.

 

Adrian, you're on the money about why John's confused. He's struggling to remember details of the life he lived 40 years ago.

 

- Jason

John Constantine: MINXNAILER

ROGAN: "... Quitely doing Hb... a pity he'd probably only do it if Grant Morrison were to write it..."

 

Don't tease me!

 

Anyone remember a comic called "Scream!"? British children's horror anthology from the 1980s. I'd love to see a few of its artists do Hellblazer. Eric Bradbury mainly, but also Jim Watson, J Richardson, Heinzl. Assuming they're still alive and working. Actually, I s'pose they only need to be working. :)

 

Back From The Depths

 

This site archives a few Scream! stories, including an "Alan Moore" story illustrated by Heinzl. (Depending on who you believe, Alan only wrote the first instalment and/or the plot, so don't get too excited.) Definitely check out "The Dracula File" archive for Bradbury's creepy, nasty art. Sweeet.

 

Off topic, but I'd love to see John Ridgeway return for another issue or three.

 

- Jason

"Supernatural adversary gets revenge on John by attacking his friends one by one" was a poor choice of words on my part again, folks. "Supernatural adversary hurts John, largely including, but not limited to, eliminating his allies one by one" might have been better, but it makes for stilted discussion. Anyway, the horse has bolted now. Nevertheless here's my case:

 

Delano:

 

Doesn't apply.

 

Ennis:

 

Rake at the Gates of Hell - The First takes out the Lord of the Dance, Rick the Vic, Gabriel, Nigel. Issue 80, solicitation copy: "The First of the Fallen won't let up on his methodical destruction of John's world." Issue 81 page 10 panel 2, the First: "Sooner or later he'll... go to his friends for help with some scheme or other. That's when he'll get his last couple of nasty shocks."

 

Jenkins:

 

Last Man Standing - Note the name of the story. Page 23, panel 1, John: "Examine this situation and you'll find it's everything I'm afraid of. The vicious old bastard's going to kill my friends, one by one..." Okay, it's not an act of revenge.

 

How To Play With Fire - Ellie and Gavin weaken John by eliminating his friends. Issue 126, page 4, panels 3-4, Gavin: "But the friends always come back, don't they? Not this time. I've driven them all away. For good. If you don't believe me, try calling one of them. Any of them."

 

Azzarello:

 

It's appropriate that Brian's run doesn't fit the formula. :)

 

Ellis:

 

Warren would've gotten around to it eventually. Ahem.

 

Carey:

 

Reasons to be Cheerful - 'nuff said.

 

This record isn't so bad when you consider it happens over 20-odd years. I was probably just extra sensitive 'cos I recently re-read the whole lot in the period of a week or two. The patterns are emphasised, believe me. :)

 

 

JAMES: And none were really "revenge on John" performed by a supernatural adversary with the single intent of fucking him up a bit.

 

Rake at the Gates of Hell and How To Play With Fire were exactly that. Unless you're referring solely to the allies who've "died in one or twos"; in which case, fair enough.

 

 

 

James, you know I love you and all your works, but, um...

 

JAMES: "No, the fact that it's bad comedy means that it's bad comedy. / I "get" it, I just don't think it's funny."

 

As my learned friend surely knows, "getting it" isn't confined to understanding the jokes, it extends to understanding the mindset. And the key to liking The Mighty Boosh is getting where it's coming from. While the Boosh is unique, it's also typical of that school of comedy that doesn't take itself seriously, deliberately subverts itself, and looks like great fun to be involved with on either side of the camera. (cf. the original Austin Powers or Zoolander.) The Boosh is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

"The one with the broken nose" has a stylised delivery. And the fact that he walks around "with a big stupid grin on his face like he can't quite believe that he's going to be on the telly" is the whole point. In so doing he acknowledges what nonsense it all is. Unless you think the attack of the bubble-gum monster (with signature music and gyrating flunkies) deserved a more respectful treatment. :)

 

I defy you not to laugh at the frog-squeezing scene.

 

- Jason

arguments 50p

Sorry to be a wet blanket again, but am I the only one who noticed that issue 202 is all about "supernatural adversary gets revenge on John by attacking his friends one by one"? Like we haven't seen that before.

 

For the benefit of new Hellblazer readers who don't know what I'm talking about, perhaps someone might care to make up a list of the trade paperback collections that include an instance of this plot. Or it might be quicker to list the trades that DON'T include it.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if this had been done, like, once or twice before, or three times, but jeez. C'mon. How many times are we going to get this same plot dished up to us with flavour variations?

 

James, I also thought that woman in the caff (page 9 panel 4) might have been the woman from issue 201 popping up again, but look at page 9 panel 1: that could just as easily be the same woman sitting behind John. Leonardo's just Dilloning, as noted elsewhere.

 

Art & colouring are reminiscent of 80's Hellblazer. I'm liking Leonardo's JC, spiky hair 'n all. And dig that friction-ridge shading technique.

 

To pre-empt Josh, the British idiom "doss [over-used word]" on page 5 is a generic expression of contempt. "Doss" carries overtones of mental deficiency and/or tramphood. "[over-used word]" is derived from US political jargon, having something to do with bush.

 

- Jason

JAMES: Never heard "chuff" to mean fart or anus. Maybe it's an Australian thing? Or possibly just an "everywhere outside of Yorkshire" thing.

 

I don't think we'll ever know.

 

The 2002 edition of Roger's Profanisaurus gives:

Chuff 1. v. To pass wind, shoot a bunny rabbit. 'Oops! Best open a window vicar. I've just chuffed.' 2. n. Vagina, lady's front bottom. 3. n.zoo. Anus of a gnat.

 

The subsequent derivatives of the word are all based on definition 2, except for "chuff-nuts".

 

On the other hand, A Dictionary of Slang - Slang and Colloquialisms of the UK (http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm) gives:

chuff

Noun. 1. Rubbish, nonsense. E.g."That film was a load of chuff."

2. The anus. [Aust.]

3. The vagina.

4. A passing of wind from the anus, a 'fart'.

 

The Dictionary's claim that "the anus" is of Australian origin is questionable - I've never heard the word chuff used in Australia at all.

 

We never used to have this sort of discussion in the House of Vertigo group. :)

 

- Jason

JOSH: "I missed him by a nun's chuff."

What is a chuff. What does it mean to chuffed?

 

 

JAMES: A chuff in this context is a vagina. He means that he only just missed the person he was looking for. To be chuffed is to be pleased with something, but that's irrelevant here.

 

Chuff's got lots of meanings - "fart" is another - but it usually means anus. For example, "chuff adder" (homosexual gentleman), or "tight as a gnat's chuff" (very tight indeed).

 

It's not at all clear whether "nun's chuff" is intended to be taken rectally, vaginally or flatulently. Each alternative yields an apt description of a small margin - tight, narrow, slight. I suppose I'm splitting hairs... ;)

 

Are there any nuns on the STH boards who could clarify?

 

- Jason

Tim, thanks for the feedback on the feedback. :) "5-minute job with standard Photoshop filters" was sloppy talk, and I'm duly chastened. I'm not suggesting for a second that you are taking shortcuts.

 

But I suggest that you start.

 

I honestly thought 190 and 199 were digital jobs. You could've got the same effect digitally and it wouldn't have taken nearly as long. Same with 201 - I fully accept that it wasn't a 5 minute job, but once you'd arrived at the final cut, it could've been REcreated that way.

 

Go digital, man. Think of the time you'd save, and the productivity advantage you'd have.

 

Looking at the evolution of your work since your RPG days, 100% digital seems an obvious and natural path for you to take. It's not a cop-out, it's a legitimate tool.

 

To put it another way, when I choose my favourite Bradstreet covers it's got nothing to do with how painterly they are, it's all about composition and impact.

 

Hopefully this post isn't coming across as inflammatory. This is shaky new ground here... we fanboys are used to coldly discussing the work of pros without said pros' involvement in the discussion. In continuing this thread I'm trying to avoid deference at one extreme and bloodyminded rudeness at the other.

 

What a shame the Vertigo letter columns are gone now. It'd be a treat to read latterday artists and writers diving in and counter-attacking letterhacks on technical or artistic grounds. :)

 

Tim, your point "it's only one cover" is universal. As we put it at my work, "they can't all be winners". (Or as a veteran co-worker told me when I started, "it's only a fuckin' newspaper".)

 

- Jason

writing this waaay too late at night

Christian, I think we're on the same page... you could write a Hellblazer arc by numbers. It's been variations on a theme since about halfway through Garth's run. What keeps me interested is different voices and, I have to admit, my sad-twat loyalty to a series that was once something special.

 

James, one certainly can make similar claims about anything in an ongoing medium, but that doesn't make the thing any less in need of, um, a rest. Friends, Home & Away, Doctor Who, Hellblazer... get the picture? :)

 

Errol, cheers for the link to the Monomyth site. I don't agree that discovery of the Monomyth theory is responsible for the shite state of Hollywood films, but great site.

 

ERROLJR: Carey's good, but to me it doesn't seem to be breaking new ground, which is what Hellblazer did in its glory days.

 

Yep, exactly. Mike's maintaining a franchise. But he's so good it's hard to make any significant criticism.

 

Azzarello "ack"? I dropped the title during his run, but last month I re-read my whole collection. Y'know, Brian's bloody brilliant. His take on the title still doesn't sit right with me, but you read those stories again and they're better than good. As a comic writer, he's one of the best of the best. Was his stuff Hellblazer? Well, if Jamie's and Garth's and Paul's runs were all part of the same continuity, so was Brian's. It's not as if you can reconcile Garth's JC with Jamie's JC any more readily than you can reconcile Brian's with Jamie's.

 

CHRISTIAN: Ellis was moving more towards a middle ground between Delano and Ennis' run, I felt.

 

Damning words. Once a work starts defining itself in terms of itself - either intentionally or in the eyes of its audience - the writing's on the wall.

 

- Jason

Is John past it? Well, all of his stories have been told; the comic has pretty much been going over old ground for years now. Even a fresh and talented writer like Mike is just breathing new life into more or less the same plots.

 

JAMES: I really would recommend reading Lucifer; for the most part, it's superior to anything Mike's done on Hellblazer.

 

The man's right. The first few TPB collections of Lucifer are amazing.

 

ANDY: I say let Constantine live on to make guest shots in other DC titles. He could return to that figure of mystery...

 

Yes, yes, yes. Best idea I've heard in ages. Talk about returning the title to its roots - the time when it wasn't even a title. :)

 

JOHN: if you're killing him off then end the title and use his death to spin-off a new book.

 

...Called "Hellblazer", but of course numbered from issue 1. :) With art by Rob Liefeld. (Don't think I need to bother with a smiley there...)

 

Gemma as the new girl Hellblazer? The title'd be in publication for, oh, about a year before JK Rowling unveiled a new line of books...

 

- Jason

'Scuse my ignorance, but the Bristol thing's a full-on comic con, yeah? Or is it just a get-together for the STH folks? Might be back in that neck of the woods myself next year.

 

Will the bumming be compulsory?

 

- Jason

Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. Sorry if my maiden post was a bit harsh... despite appearances I'm pretty fond of Hellblazer, and I'm not down on any of the artistes responsible. Likewise I wasn't taking a shot at Mark, so Mark, if I chose my wording badly, I apologise.

 

Rogan, maybe I expect a bit too much from the title, but that's Mike's fault. :)

 

James:

"She could be Angie, Gemma or Rosacarnis since they've had interchangeable faces for the past year."

LOL! I've chosen to interpret the hair gel as HP Sauce, btw; I don't see Constantine as a napkin man.

 

Red, nice avatar to you, too. Yep, I voted 5, but wasn't the first.

 

- Jason

I'm with James on issue 201 - it's all been done before. Hence we're describing it with vanilla terms like solid, unexceptional, change of pace... It's a change of pace from Mike because it's a dull filler. I've been a Mike booster since he started, but 201 was just padding. Fitting that Tim should have supplied a stock cover image to go with it.

 

Mark said "Not exceptional, perhaps, but a nice breather..." For a breather I close the comic and go do something else. Can we keep Hellblazer confronting and exciting, please?

 

Maybe I missed something subtle: for a start, I don't know why the story was called "Event Horizon". And I suppose we'll see the bird in Tarquin's shoppe again. Mike's so clever he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

Back to that cover, what's the hype about? It's a 5-minute job with standard Photoshop filters. But that's how Tim's working these days, innit? Sometimes the result is beautiful, like on issue 192 or 199; sometimes fine, like on 190 or 193; but here it's like, "I could have done that myself". In fact if I'd then tracked down one of a jillion short stories about dangerous items of jewellery, I could have saved US$2.75.

 

Still in two minds about Tim's Constantine model. Sometimes he's spot-on, other times he looks clownish. But the same could be said for photos of Sting.

 

Leonardo Manco's Constantine is a bit Will Simpson. Reminds me of those black & white ads for Hellblazer that used to run in Sandman et al before Vertigo. I'd like to think there was more to the character than a trenchcoat, though, however well-drawn the coat is. On the whole Leonardo's style seems better suited to the title than Marcelo's (quite masterly) style. But it seems he's not a Brit, 'cos on page 22 (?) he's got John switching the light ON, not off, and as Andy pointed out, those lampposts on the last page are relics.

 

What's with the spiky hair? It was silly enough on the covers, now it's migrated to the interior art. Are we to believe the working class mage John Constantine starts the day by gelling his hair? :)

 

That I should bother to nitpick a funnybook speaks volumes about my life, but hey, we can't have Mike and Leonardo and Tim working in a vacuum.

 

 

- Jason