A. Heathen

It's Streatham, so we can go to the lock-up for safety !

http://members4.boardhost.com/JohnShirley/msg/28350.html

Tim's doing the book covers.

I agree with your original rating, James, for most of the same reasons.

I liked Van Staten's caving in, but the Dalek's breakdown was poorly explained away. Having a former killing machine isolated and become troubled by its lack of purpose (or orders) was a great concept, and yet they had to lard on the Touched by the Hand of Billie reason. I'd have preferred an "Enemy Mine" discussion with the Doctor/Dalek in the same cell and then that sexually ambivalent one out of Coronation Street to have got killed before he can underact Piper.

Thank goodness for Time Travel, so we can get the PROPER Daleks back.

(Ade predicts: finally cracking under the whole "I killed the Daleks and Time Lords" strain, T' Doctor goes back and stops himself.)

Lazy is perhaps a bit harsh. But it's a pretty big oversight - if the author has created a moral dilemma, then it should be explored in some way, unless glossing over it forms part of the plot. At this point, this does not appear to be the case. There's no reason why this particular dilemma has any reason for existing since Carey could have written it that they only needed the flesh to open the door or something.

This reminds me of discussions about "the rules of writing" with Luis, back in the days of old.

I would say that if every moral dilemma created in a story were to be explored in some way, it would be a ponderous, repetitive and ponderous tale. You might think it would have been nice if someone had said "what about the poor innocent souls" because that's what you're thinking. But there is no obligation to deal with that when the overall story is about liberating a significant other innocent soul. As well as the repetition, it would dilute the impact of Cheryl's innocence.

No help at all in deciding how to NOT vote, but on the Channel 4 news tonight, there was a walkabout by Howard where some bloke doing his garden summed up the entire reason why the Cons are worthless.

To paraphrase in much fewer words:

"You lot sold off the hospital cleaning in the first place, and I know because my daughter was there, and you sold off all the nurses homes, and don't forget unemployment !"

"You are entitled to your opinion ..."

"Yes. I am."

Priceless !

(Footnote: before H-HGTTG, among the cinema adverts, there was a Tory "Blair-bashing attempt". Sorry, Tory Central, but having tory rags countering Blair's statements is shallow, but having the Independent's anti-Iraq stuff is FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL when you lot would have been in there on half as much "evidence".

Best laugh at the end, when "are you thinking what we're thinking ?" was met by "Yeah. don't vote Tory.")

I'll continue my Mos Def naysaying.

If I'd not been very familiar with his lines, I might not have had any idea what he was saying for much of the film.

Just got back from seeing it.

Decidedly true to my memories of the radio show, and very enjoyable.

The Obligatory Moviemakers' Buggering-around works very well (then of course Adams played a great part in the movie script.

Martin Freeman - very Dentarthurdent, if you ask me.

Sam Rockwell (complete with clever version of the extra head thing) - nice. certainly a better Zaphod than the TV version of Mark Wing Davey.

Bill Nighy - yes, I think so!

Vogons - very good, although the poetry thing was watered down a tad too much.

Marvin - works fine for me, especially as the old Marvin gets a cameo.

And a nice theme tune too.

I downloaded a fascinating documentary recently called "London - The Greatest City" and part of its story was about a street in London in the 18th century known simply as "Gin Lane".

 

Believe it or not but gin was a pretty notorious drink in the 18th century where the lower classes were concerned in places like London where there was a street which gained the nickname "Gin Lane" by a writer called William Hogarth, it was basically the crack cocaine of its day and caused a lot of crime and vice in those days because of people's need for it mainly because it was so cheap and accessible in those days, it was also the cause for breakouts of syphilis because so many women began prostituting themselves in order to buy gin.

Notwithstanding the addictive nature of alcohol being at least as powerful as cocaine, even after all the socialisation, neither drug causes crime or disease. Both may be associated with them. Alcohol more so than cocaine. The main reasons for an increase in social problems between beer and gin is the strength and ease of intoxication.

However, the Gin Lane reference is slightly incorrect.

Hogarth was an artist who was famous for "improving" works such as The Rake's Progress and the pair of etchings known as "Beer Street" and "Gin Lane". The latter were actually commissioned by the brewery trade, to exaggerate all the "evils".

I can recommend a book called "Drink: A Social History" which also details the fact that coffee shops were considered more of a threat to social order !

Cool.

Incidentally, I am in Strangehaven 17 :-)

The guy who runs Sub City here is trucking over.

 

ADE!  Are you reading this thread ?  Are you coming for food on Saturday ?

Not retired, but doing the finishing off of Just 1 Page 3.

Yes, please count me in for the meal.

Mike Carey is doing a talk at the Lambeth Book Festival next weekend.

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/services/leisure...estival.shtml#3

And the following week, he's being interviewed at the Bristol Comic Expo.

These last few posts are pure comedic genius. I hope Tears is taking notes for the "Son Of Constantine's return" script...

 

Yeah, hilarious. You guys should get together and go on the road with that. You could replace the Insult Dog on Conan. So what ever happend to the 'fan film' of JC? Had to be a work of genius since it was made by loving fans, yes?

Ooh, I don't know, perhaps they just recognised their limitations ?

Unlike all those big money people.

5 This one is pretty clearly signposted if not "spoon fed". Angie made arrangements - she's a scouser, who will no doubt have "friends" who can sort this sort of thing out.

JW: Not clearly signposted at all. Angie's not been shown to have any connections with anyone dodgy (except for her sometimes violent father), and her line to Gemma sounds like it was more about Angie avoiding the police (because they wanted to question her about the attack by Glady's sons) than her stowing bodies away. Too much of a leap for me.

AB: She says "I had my reasons etc" in answer to Gemma voicing your concern about no-one finding Gladys's flat which also had a protective spell on it. And when was the last time any police force found a serial killer any time soon ?

You're reaching for flaws here.

6 Where'd you get the dead hooker thing from ? Were Gladys's victim's all hookers ?

JW: Yes.

AB: Fair enough.

But I am more concerned with your suddenly narrow concept of what the Hell of Hellblazer is all about. Where's that Absolute morality idea of yours come in to the Hell of this Constantine ? There are many roads to Hell and sacrifices, where needed can suit whoever (a continuity slacker's dream !).

JW: As the Sandman made clear, the Christian Hell - and the one to which Constantine is now travelling - was created and "owned" by Yahweh, so any decision about the innocence or otherwise of a sacrifice made to that realm must be done by the yardstick of that god. Otherwise why bother putting in the word "innocent" at all? Another case where odd little inconsistencies in the script should have been ironed out at the editing stage (I assume that Mike was distracted when writing this, because he is putting out about thirty comics a month).

AB: So Nergal pointing out this is a back door has no meaning ?

As I said, DC mythology is clear that there are many ways into Hell.

7 If your sister died (or was taken to Hell) and you had the chance to save her by using the previously bottled soul of an innocent murder victim, what would you do ?

JW: As I said, I don't have a problem with Constantine doing it, but I do have a problem with him, Angie and Gemma using the soul without even the slightest thought about the consequences. Lazy.

AB: You know when people do things that they find awkward?

They don't always express every moral dilemma etc.

That's not lazy, it is uncluttered writing.

I bet you hate Impressionist art, don't you?

No, but I do hate weird little sarky comments like that. I mean, even if I did hate impressionist art, what bearing would that have on this discussion? Impressionism is an artistic movement which, to the best of my knowledge, Leonardo Manco does not subscribe, so I don't see why that should matter. Fuck me, I'm grumpy tonight. And I was in such a good mood today.

Well I was talking about the writing using a metaphor AND making a weird little sarky comment. You've been arguing with me long enough to know that's what I do. (Ob.W.L.S.C. : It's not your time of the month is it ?)

11 Very true. Although it could be read the way you propose, as Angie's had two hours to wander around Cheryl and Tony's place nicking ornaments (recall: she IS a scouser).

JW: Then how does she know it's holy water from Lourdes?

AB: Dunno. Perhaps it's written on the thing like souvenir's usually have?

Tell me, did all the above scream out at you after one reading ?

JW: Yes.

AB: That's why you're grumpy !

what's constantine?

Piece of shit.

No, that's pronounced "Constanteen".

1*Page 1, panel 2. Given that this is occurring during the Stations of the Cross arc, John should be topless. This isn't the first time Manco's conjured a trenchcoat out of thin air - he gave John one in Ward 23, despite the fact that he was wearing a completely different jacket in the preceding issue, and in Reasons to be Cheerful, Angie wound up wearing a trenchcoat that appeared mysteriously between panels (how hard would it have been to draw John coatless and imply that he had given her his?).

 

2*Page 2, panel 1. "Two hours on"? They've been staring at the body for two hours? Why? And in those same positions? Didn't they feel like sitting down? Couldn't they have at least got some scissors and cut that scarf off her neck?

 

3*Same panel. Also note that Angie is back in the trenchcoat that appeared from nowhere in Reasons to be Cheerful, despite being dressed in her Staring at the Wall gear last issue.

 

4*Page 4, panel 4. Tony's transformation into a bald, short, fat man pissed me off too. Would it have killed the editor to send a scan of Carey's first two issues to Manco? I mean, you can put it down to the stress caused by Staring at the Wall, but you'd still be making up excuses for the laziness of the production team.

 

5*Page 6, panel 3. So an old woman is found mysteriously dead in her home, along with the body of one (or possibly both) of her sons at roughly the same time as a serial killer is operating in the area, and the police don't bother to search her flat at all? Wouldn't someone have come to collect the furniture, either a relative or the council? There's a period of at least a month - longer, if you want to squeeze All His Engines in there - between High on Life and Staring at the Wall (when the police would have been too busy to investigate). What was going on during that month? Are we suppoed to infer that Angie buried the bodies or something?

 

6*Page 8, panel 4. So the innocent whose "flesh and spirit" are to be sacrificed turns out to be a dead hooker? On the one hand it's a pleasently liberal view to take, but on the other you're dealing with Heaven and Hell, creations of a figure of Absolute morality who's not known for looking well on fornicators and prostitutes. So why would this work?

 

7*Same panel. I also find it disturbing that nobody's particularly bothered by the fact that some poor dead girl - who was put to rest in High on Life - is now having her soul sacrificed to Hell. Could have got around this by saying that the flesh was all that was needed for the sacrifice, or that the soul would be used as a conduit, but not thrown over to Hell itself.

 

8*Page 16, panel 1. John's fine lying on the bridge so long as his coat, and not his skin, makes contact with it? In that case why didn't he just wear his shoes?

 

9*Same panel. And things are actually looking pretty good for the home team, given that the monster is in its own territory and John is the one playing away.

 

10*Page 17-18. Poor blocking. I have no idea how John got around that monster.

 

11*Page 20. Angie now has a Magical Materialising Bottle of Holy Water to go with the Magical Materialising Trenchcoat? Seriously, what the fuck? Where did she keep that when she ran out of her house virtually naked in Reasons to be Cheeful? And all the tedious jokes about and shoving it up her arse or vagina will be treated with the contempt they deserve, so don't bother. Absolutely fucking absurd. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Gemma to have grabbed a bottle of holy water from her parents' own supply?

1 You don't expect them to read the back issues, do you ?

If I were Jon Vankin, I'd use the Patented Ade Brown escape here - "this is a memory and therefore subject to errors". As I am Ade Brown, I don't think it's a good enough excuse.

2 They are not in the same positions, and perhaps John put his coat back on after Chas didn't come back with the Henna and he had to go out himself ?

3 That's an error from last issue, not this one, but editorial slips continue. I just wish they'd do the decent thing and fix these in the TPB collections.

4 True. But it's like Tracey Barlow in Coronation Street - just allow yourself to concentrate on the story !

5 This one is pretty clearly signposted if not "spoon fed". Angie made arrangements - she's a scouser, who will no doubt have "friends" who can sort this sort of thing out.

6 Where'd you get the dead hooker thing from ? Were Gladys's victim's all hookers ? Or is that your Yorkshire slang for Scouser ?

But I am more concerned with your suddenly narrow concept of what the Hell of Hellblazer is all about. Where's that Absolute morality idea of yours come in to the Hell of this Constantine ? There are many roads to Hell and sacrifices, where needed can suit whoever (a continuity slacker's dream !).

Andy makes a fair point about our totally unreasonable criticism of that whole Constanteenian Cat thing. Must be that if you do something stupid in the context of an otherwise compelling story, there is forgiveness, whereas if you do it in an awful Hollywood Block"buster" ... Q.E.D.

7 If your sister died (or was taken to Hell) and you had the chance to save her by using the previously bottled soul of an innocent murder victim, what would you do ?

8 There may yet be a reason, but I assumed that was part of Nergal's spell.

Bad artist!

9 It's a pointless caption box at best, but I read the home team as "Gemma and Angie", but how would John know what's going on back home ?

10 I suppose you've never seen Indiana Jones or some sort of Elf person run across a crumbling bridge that would never hold their weight? What is the average wing-speed velocity of an unladen swallow ?

Anyway, bridge of souls crumbles, monster topples to its right while John runs past on its left. Certainly could have done with a nice and clear page, but it's confusion that is conveyed if you don't look too close.

I bet you hate Impressionist art, don't you?

11 Very true. Although it could be read the way you propose, as Angie's had two hours to wander around Cheryl and Tony's place nicking ornaments (recall: she IS a scouser).

Tell me, did all the above scream out at you after one reading ?

If so, I suggest you take over the annotations in future.

It's the only cure.

Why not follow on from where you left off with <insert That Awful Film> ?

Make a film about the life of John Paul II.

But where he has to die once to find out that God's got a plan for all of us.

Once again, someone forgot to advise Warners' marketing department of the "it's not an action movie" bullshit.

I have NO interest in this product whatsoever.

Bloody hell, John, your text message seems VERY ingracious having just seen the "highlights". Cahill was offside for the shot that resulted in Fergo's late equaliser, and Blake had a clear foul on the edge of your box a couple of minutes before Everton's final attack.

Otherwise, a fair result and I am only irked by the commentator's descriptions of Beattie's miss and Nafti's almost identical miss.

The former was "a narrow miss", the latter "he probably doesn't list heading as one of his strengths". Cockentator more like.

I agree with your comments by & large Adrian, but you're living in a bit of a fantasy world if those who earn over £100K "earn it off the back of poorly paid workers".

£100K isn't that unusual a salary, certainly nowadays. I know of a few of my wife's colleagues who earn over this, doing real salaried jobs, not management or owners of businesses. They can't just increase accordingly.

 

That said, I still agree with the 50% rate.

It's not fantasy at all.

Although £100,000 may well be becoming more common in some industries, in 2004 the national average salary was £22,000 (for males it was around £28,000 and for women £16,000).

So anyone earning four times the national average is going to be in quite a minority. Most of those high earners are either directly making money off their workforce (manufacturering industry, service industry) or indirectly (finance, health service civil service). Of course the capitalist system we live in requires us to have someone to "aspire to". The job market that those people you mentioned work in will account for the increase in tax quicker than the average wage accounts for increases in the lower tax bracket.

And the average wage for the top ten percent of the population was only £39,000.

Unsurprisingly, the leaders work in the financial industry, where the top earners(*around 90,000 people) earn an average of £71,000 by gambling with all the other industries.

I got something like 60 Lib Dem points, 34 Green ones, -8 New Labour, -11 UKIP and -49 [over-used word] Party.

However, the questions asked do not cover enough of the areas where the Labour Party has to upper hand on the Tories and the Lib Dems would keep the status quo. And it does not address the fact that UKIP are nothing more than "New Tory".

New Labour's creeping privatisation of certain NHS functions is better than the Tory plans to asset strip the entire NHS for private medicine. But they still have an obsession with monitoring over function. The plans to allow GPs power instead of influence are nothing short of populist bollocks (qv their so-called "parent choice" in schools. However, they still get 66.6% right in health and education, and more so on crime. The Iraqi invasion is my strongest opposition to them, and they don't have Dennis Skinner and the old Red Ken to make me think there must be some good in there.

There are other problems

For example, I am slightly in favour of reverting to the old laws on cannabis, but the Tories would "treat" drug users as criminals not people with health needs.

Actually, lets look at the questions individually.

Europe

The UK should sign up to the European Constitution

The UK should join the Euro

Yeah, I think we should. There's more to gain from being inside there than Bush's Poodle, and I like the Euro.

Freedom and Defence

UK citizens should be required to possess an ID card containing biometric data

I want ID cards, but not compulsory. The govt's plans for implementing them are twisted.

Police should be able to detain terror suspects under house arrest for up to three years without trial

No way. I don't trust the "intelligence" enough.

The UK was right to go to war in Iraq

UK troops should remain in Iraq for as long as necessary to ensure a stable regime

No. No.

Tax and Employment

People earning over £100K should be taxed at 50% to fund public services

Yes, I am a socialist, unlike certain senior members of the Labour Party. The simple reason is that I can hardly think of anyone over that wage who does not in some way earn it off the back of poorly paid workers. And the over 100K mob will just increase their salaries accordingly. It amazes me to this day that the tories manage to persuade people below the average wage that tax cuts are a good idea !

The minimum wage should continue to be increased at more than the rate of inflation

See above.

Money that would otherwise be spent on public services should be spent on tax cuts

Oh yes, and please buy that nice Michael Howard a new house, and a slave to cast petals before his feet whenever he walks out in public.

Council tax should be replaced by a local income tax

Not sure on this one. It puzzles me that Paddy, er, I mean Charles Kanardly has

chosen to distract the LibDem attention from more important issues.

Pensions

Over 75s should receive a guaranteed pension irrespective of their National Insurance contributions

Yes. Well certainly anyone who is planning on being 75 in the next twenty years (no that does not include me, just people who have paid their NI way for years in the misguided impression that they would get it back). The rest of us should be encouraged to start paying a bit more in case we live until we are ninety.

Health

Smoking should be banned in public places

No. Just indoors.

Patients should be able to receive 50% of the NHS operation price to go private

Not a chance. You pay for a hospital and allow it to run properly.

You don't take money off people then give them some spurious choice to get that money back, because that's merely step one on the ladder to the Tory vision of selling off the NHS to capitalism. I am in favour of giving minor tax concessions to people in the 50% bracket who opt for private medical insurance on top of their NI contributions though. Just enough to say "thankyou for giving up your place in the NHS queue to someone who needs it".

Personal care (as well as nursing care) for elderly people should be free

Yes. And the councils should have minimum requirements for this sort of thing or have their Council Tax docked, since those folk end up being looked after by the NHS eventually.

Crime

Foxhunting should be made legal again

No. Not yet.

Cannabis should be reclassified as a Class B drug (more severe penalties for possession)

Yes. NB this is not actually "more severe" it is just a return to the previous situation. However, "personal use" possession of all drugs should be decriminalised in favour of treatment options rather than custody.

Education

University tuition fees should be abolished

Not sure about this. I don't see why employers should not be more closely involved in a two way contract with students. something like "We'll pay your fees if you pay us back in service /loyalty"

Maintenance grants should be introduced for students from low income families

Yes.

Private school fees should be paid by the state if the cost is the same as the equivalent state school

No. See NHS Privatisation argument

Immigration

The UK should have an annual limit on immigration

I don't think we need one.

We should help middle class tories get repatriated to the south of France or better still, Australia.

Asylum seekers should be allowed to work rather than rely on state benefits

Absolutely.

Transport

Fuel and vehicle excise duty should be replaced with a national system of road charging

Yes. It's the congestion charges logical extension.

Childcare

Parents of under-5s should be able to spend childcare tax credits as they wish

Don't know enough about this. There should be minimum standards on what they spend it on ... otherwise they'll waste it on drugs and booze.

The March info won't be out for a while, but don't forget that around the movie a whole load of extra "Hellblazer related" books came out, which may have affected the "Hellblazer Dollar".

Note the drop in monthly sales when all the extras came out.

February 2005

126 HELLBLAZER #205 (MR) $2.75 DC 15,158

137 PAPA MIDNITE #1 (OF 5) $2.95 DC 12,733

January 2005

110 HELLBLAZER #204 (MR) $2.75 DC 14,523

148 CONSTANTINE MOVIE (MR) $6.95 DC 7,135

5 ALL HIS ENGINES HC (MR) $24.95 DC 4,532

10 HELLBLAZER RARE CUTS TP (MR) $14.95 DC 3,805

19 CONSTANTINE COLLECTION TP (MR) $14.95 DC 2,750

December 2004

141 HELLBLAZER #203 (MR) $2.75 DC 15,304

November 2004

136 HELLBLAZER #202 (MR) $2.75 DC 15,254

October 2004

128 HELLBLAZER #201 (MR) $2.75 DC 15,262

September 2004

148 HELLBLAZER #200 (MR) $4.50 DC 16,342

15 SETTING SUN TP (MR) $12.95 DC 3,441

The Master should be brought back in a scene like the one where De Nomolos confronts Bill & Ted at the end of "Bogus Journey".

I know.

To be honest I can't be arguing with you about this when we should unite against the people who think "it doesn't really matter". The answer comes from my psychological rationalisation rather than a load of "facts" laid down in the story.

If that makes you feel better.

Must. Not. Gush.

ACTOR: I think that my biggest fear right now is definitely getting the Gush.

DIRECTOR: As a director, I've seen the Gush close up, and it's not pretty. A guy just gets locked into an ejaculation that doesn't stop until he's dead.

ACTOR: The first guy that ever was to get it was Dean Dorsey. I've seen the clip. He's doing the snot shot, and suddenly there's this real panic on his face, and he just keeps staring down at himself whimpering "oh my god, oh my god," like a sad voice, freaky clown. He's coming with the tears in his voice, but they are not there. It is bad.

DIRECTOR: I threw ice on his balls... tried to destimulate him with a dog carcass. But he just kept popping the protein.

ACTOR: It took him three days to die, and all the time he was firing the fuck juice, and he was begging to be shot.

DIRECTOR: A spunk expert explained to me that the whole body just gets consumed in producing semen. You can eat all day and all night, but you can't keep up when you're shooting the moisturiser like a fucked up oilrig.

ACTOR: He was just twenty kilos when he died. That is maybe about as big as two or three squirrels. And when they cremated him, they couldn't burn his testicles.

DIRECTOR: A guy with the gush is suddenly in big demand for cream scenes all over town. There are special agents for it. If you see a black limo with a flashing light and a siren, chances are that's a jam waiting with some poor guy in the back, groin going off like a sick snake, Gush agent clutching a supply of dick nappies, trying to cram in as many jobs as possible before the spunk turns red.

ACTOR: It goes red, and then it turns black, and that's when you'd better watch that you're not piling the pearls into Saint Peter's dress! No, but it is not funny at all. In the reality perception it is tragic, and that is where it is. That's why I am doing only soft cock porn now. These scenes where you just push it in with your thumb, or a winklepokel, and it is flaccid.

DIRECTOR: A lot of guys are going invertebrate now. But it's not easy to keep jelly when you're in a woman.

ACTOR: It's not much fun, soft cock. It is like trying to tighten up a screw with a maggot. And keeping the lob in a sexy twat... that is very tricky. But I guess in the end, it is beating squirting up your squit to death.

Welcome aboard, Ms M.

That'd be the thin end of the wedge, then.

But what you mean to say, Mark, is that you are not bothered, and you find it irrelevant.

But if you take any single issue of Hellblazer, if it is enjoyable in any way, then the rest of the series does not matter.

And in case anyone does want to know where All His Engines has its place in the story of John Constantine then "at the end of the current arc" is where it sits according to the writer. Although perhaps editorial laxity might have some people thinking otherwise.

Just in case anyone is mildly interested in this sort of thing.